Transcript: Episode 135: Giant Pink Eraser
LISTEN TO THE EPISODE:
[00:00:00] Susan Barry: This is Top Floor episode 135. You can find the show notes at https://www.topfloorpodcast.com/episode/135.
[00:00:14] Narrator: Welcome to Top Floor with Susan Barry. This weekly podcast ride up to the top floor features tangible tips and excellent stories from the experts and characters who elevate hospitality. And now your host and elevator operator, Susan Barry.
[00:00:32] Susan Barry: Welcome to the show. Brian Miller's career sits at the intersection of staffing and franchising. He got his start at Snelling Staffing, where he served as a senior leader for more than 15 years before moving on to a global franchise company. Brian was hired as a business coach by Patrice Rice and soon joined her company, Patrice and Associates, where he has now been CEO for almost a decade.
[00:01:02] Patrice and Associates is the largest hospitality recruiting company in North America, with 180 offices specializing in restaurant, hotel, and corporate executive staffing. Today, Brian and I are going to talk about the current state of the labor market and what hospitality companies need to do to prepare for the future. But before we do, we need to answer the call button.
(Call Button sound effect plays)
[00:01:26] The emergency call button is our hotline for hospitality professionals with burning questions. If you would like to submit a question, you can call or text me at 850-404-9630. Today's question was submitted by Randy. Brian, I have to tell you, I love this question.
[00:01:53] I think it's so interesting. I am getting conflicting advice about unpaid projects that I've been asked to do in the interview process. What do you think? So Randy's referring to these create a marketing plan for X or give us a presentation about Y that sometimes come up in the interview process in the pre-hiring period of time. I definitely have an opinion about this, but let me hear yours first. What do you think?
[00:02:26] Brian Miller: Well, first of all, let me say it's an honor to be on the show. I feel like I should call you the queen bee because you're the queen bee of hive marketing. So I don't get too often I don't get a chance to talk to the queen bee herself. So I'm excited about the opportunity to be able to spend a few minutes with you today.
[00:02:40] Susan Barry: My pleasure.
[00:02:41] Brian Miller: Cool. I think that's a great question. And I think in a lot of businesses, is there are different types of positions where you have to do some sort of a working interview, if you will, um, and that's pretty common in the hospitality industry, especially in restaurants where, you know, you might have to work a shift or something like that.
[00:03:01] Uh, I know when I used to hire instructors, one of the things I would do is I would have them deliver a presentation to me. So I don't think it's terribly unusual that they would want to see a sample of your work. But I think there's a limit to how much you should have to do because you don't want to create a free marketing plan for somebody that then they can go use and and do something with.
[00:03:20] So I think a sample of what you've done in the past or maybe an outline of what you could see yourself doing for that company, I think that's an appropriate question. But to spend hours or days developing a plan that you're not going to be paid for something doesn't sit well about that to me.
[00:03:35] Susan Barry: I think it's absolutely right. And I think if it's so important to have a sample of the product that's specific to the company, then they should have a budget and do some paid in advance projects. That's what I do when I'm hiring particularly new contractors. We do a few test projects, but I pay for them because I'm going to use them, like I'm not giving them nonsense work to do.
[00:04:03] Brian Miller: Exactly. So I think we're in alignment there.
[00:04:06] Susan Barry: Excellent. Well, I'm glad to hear it. So Randy, do not do a free project and if you've already started, just hit the delete button and move on with your life. So Brian, how did you get into the staffing business at Snelling?
[00:04:21] Brian Miller: Well, that was like a 100 years ago when dinosaurs are on the earth and there were palm trees in Montana. I think, um, let me remember. I actually responded to an ad in The Wall Street Journal for a trainer and I had experience in training, um, in the financial services industry. And, uh, I was one of 600 applicants and I was interviewed by the chairman and to head up their training department. And I got the job and I learned the staffing industry inside and out. My wife and I eventually bought several um, Snelling offices and a partnership and became franchisees. And then it just, you know, I went from the training department to various different departments that eventually wound up taking over all of their company stores and running all of their, um, company stores all over the US.
[00:05:11] I have experience in franchising on the and on the company store side as well, but I love the staffing industry. And when you can put somebody in a really good opportunity, maybe they have a great work life balance, they have a great career path, it can affect their family and even in some cases their community. So that's what attracted me to the staffing industry and it's what kept me in it for, you know, close to 30 years.
[00:05:34] Susan Barry: So after Snelling, you were Chief Operating Officer at Franchise Source Brands International, which is the parent company of a variety of sort of coaching and entrepreneurial business brands.
[00:05:47] I think when most people think about franchising, they think about french fries, they think about quick serve restaurants. And so I'd love for you to explain the businesses that were under that company's umbrella and sort of why those are franchises, why it's not just french fries.
[00:06:08] Brian Miller: You know, that's a common misconception. People think that, you know, most franchises are just food franchise. And while there are certainly many food franchises, and there are many of our clients that at Patrice and Associates, there's a lot of other fantastic business models that are out there. And they could be anything from a home services brand to a coaching brand, to a professional services to a senior care brand.
[00:06:31] There's just, I think maybe 70 different business models in a variety of different industry sectors that are franchises. And the cool thing about it is that you as a franchisee get the opportunity of having a proven operating system and basically attract a run on and it's way more than just franchise food franchising with a franchise you get three things.
[00:06:53] You get the brand name. Because rather than you just putting your little sign outside the door, there's a brand name that goes with that. And all the success and the history that's associated with that. There's an operating system, which is essentially like a recipe that if you file the recipe, you're going to be successful.
[00:07:10] And then the 3rd thing is the ongoing support that goes along with that. So one of the things that is great about a company like the Entrepreneur Source, which I used to be the president of, as you mentioned, is you can go to a company like that and they can, kind of take a profile on you, understand what your strengths are, what your likes are, where you see yourself in the next three to five years, and then make recommendations for different business models that may potentially help you achieve whatever your goals are.
[00:07:37] Susan Barry: It's interesting that you say proven operating model or operating system, because I think one of the biggest head scratchers in the hotel industry to me is when people buy a flag, pay for a franchise agreement, and then do not follow the proven operating model and for example, buy a lower tier brand and try to run it like a Four Seasons or whatever. Like it doesn't, that's not the business model. That's not how you're going to be successful. And there's a reason that this flag is for sale because someone has proven that they can make it work.
[00:08:19] Brian Miller: I mean, that's 100 percent true. And it's not just in the hotel franchising, it's anywhere. Uh, you know, the, the reason that you invest in a franchise model and that you write a check to them is because theoretically you believe they know what they're doing,
[00:08:32] Susan Barry: Exactly.
[00:08:33] Brian Miller: And if you follow this system, you're going to be successful. Why would you write a check to someone and then decide, “Well, I'm just going to do it my way” or “I think I know better than you” or it's like Panera and you get to pick and choose from the you pick two menu about what you're going to follow and what you're not going to follow. Right? But there's an alarming number of people that do that.
[00:08:52] And, you know, I, I tell my franchisees because we're franchise model also in the recruiting industry, to give you an example of a different franchise model. And I tell them in the training class, I said, have you ever had teenagers before? And, you know, some people will say yes, you know, some no. And I said, well, I have, and I've raised a lot of teenagers and when you know, you, when they're young, they love you and they think that you walk on water and park the Red Sea and you're cool and you're funny and all those little things.
[00:09:17] But then somewhere in that 12 to 13, 13 to 14 timeframe, all of a sudden you don't know how to walk, you don't know how to talk, you don't know how to dress. God, if you drop me off at the mall, drop me off on the other side, do not make any motions that you know me in any shape or form. Um, and then eventually when they have to start paying their bills, they think you're smart again.
[00:09:39] But in franchising, I joke that it takes about 13 weeks for that to happen, that somebody invests in your model, they buy it, they decide that they're going to follow the system. But then as they're going through class and afterwards deciding, “Well, I like that. I don't like that. I think I'll do that.”
[00:09:57] And it's exactly what you said. The biggest thing that I coach people on is you have to follow the system. You're bright and intelligent people. You wouldn't be here, but follow the system first for six months to a year. Then I want to hear all your ideas and suggestions. But in the beginning, do yourself a favor. You know, we've already won the blue ribbon at the fair.
[00:10:15] Susan Barry: Your path to Patrice and Associates was a little bit unusual because you started out as the founder's business coach. Tell me what happened.
[00:10:26] Brian Miller: Well, you know, it's very common when an entrepreneur starts a business that, um, they have this vision and they have this ideas and that's what great, that's why entrepreneurs are great is because they're visionaries and they have this idea.
[00:10:39] Sometimes they're not so great at the execution of those ideas. Uh, and Patrice had started her brand and it was clear that there was legs to this business model, but she was struggling. So she hired me as a business coach to come in and kind of look, because I understood franchising and staffing, kind of look at the business and give her recommendations for, “Hey, you're doing this. Well, here are the areas where I see as your gaps. Here's what you need to do differently.”
[00:11:04] So I did that and presented that plan and coached her for a while. And eventually being the consummate recruiter that she is, she said, “Well, how about if you join me as my Chief Operating Officer?” And, you know, I wasn't really interested at the time because I was happy doing what I was doing, but, you know, she was very persistent, very professionally persistent. Uh, and she gave me an opportunity to have equity in the company.
[00:11:28] And that was a decade ago. And I took a leap of faith and left the income producing business that I had. And basically started with Patrice and that we had about 25 locations and we have, you know, as you just said, you know, more than 180 locations now and together we built the business and expanded it to other service space industry sectors in addition to hospitality and and then eventually we were acquired by a conscious capital growth in December of 2022 because they saw the opportunity in staffing as a whole and we're continuing to grow the business from there.
[00:12:04] Susan Barry: So speaking of hospitality, can you give us sort of the state of the union when it comes to the hospitality labor market right now?
[00:12:13] Brian Miller: Sure. Um, it is, um, normalizing is what I would say at this point. Um, you know, we all know what happened before the pandemic. It was an extremely tight labor market before the pandemic.
[00:12:25] And we know what happened with the pandemic. And hopefully that's once in a hundred year anomaly. And, and then post pandemic, what we predicted would happen is there would be this race to hiring people. And that's exactly what happened. Many of these companies that had gotten PPP loans had to require, had to maintain a certain level of staffing to be able to get the maximum amount of that PPP loan forgiven by the government.
[00:12:45] So our phone started ringing off the hook in early 2021, and we kind of never looked back, and it was really literally a feeding frenzy. For a couple of years, um, and companies really weren't paying a lot of attention to salary charts, and they were just picky about the experience factor as they were back in 2019 because they just had to fill slots because they were so far behind back before the pandemic.
[00:13:15] Susan Barry: Well and my guess is that in some cases, they couldn't be as picky about experience because they had burned the experienced people by letting them go. So they, they had to take people who didn't have any experience because the experienced people were like, thanks, but no thanks, fool me once. I'm out.
[00:13:34] Brian Miller: Yeah. Well, I mean, and people have that, right? I mean, this is a, this is a very different labor market than it was five years ago than it was 10 years ago. And, you know, we can talk about that a little bit today, but you know, people, companies are less loyal to individuals. Therefore, individuals are less loyal to companies.
[00:13:49] Right? Um, and. Hey, people were keeping their ear to the ground for better opportunities. So a lot of these companies tried to call back people that they had furloughed and they weren't coming back and they didn't want to come back exactly as you said. So they called us in a panic and said, we need people like ASAP.
[00:14:07] And so the analogy that I use is kind of like going to the grocery store when you're hungry. You know, that's the thing that you never, ever, ever, ever want to do because you always buy twice as much. And man, that bag of Doritos at the checkout counter looks really good or for me, it's that cotton candy. Does that sound gross?
[00:14:22] You know, I try not to eat sugar, but cotton candy, man, I'll grab that bag of cotton candy. So people were grabbing people right and left. That is not like that anymore. The labor market has stabilized the hospitality industry, particularly in the restaurant side of things, has pretty much made up most of the positions that they lost and in the hotel industry and accommodation industry.
[00:14:42] It's close to making up the positions they lost. However, the labor market is the labor market, and we're still in a tight labor market. And that's really important for your listeners to know, Susan, because there's a few socio demographic things have changed. One is baby boomers, like me, although I'm a younger baby boomer, left the market in a mass exodus during the pandemic and many of those people didn't return..
[00:15:07] On top of that, the fertility rate in North America has been declining for two decades because we're not producing humans like we once were. Now you couple those two things together, an exodus of the aging workforce and not as many people coming up, and that leads to the tight labor market.
[00:15:25] So it is still a tight labor market. Last month's numbers were 3.9%. I can remember being told in the staffing industry 20 years ago, any unemployment under five percent was a fully employed market. So the labor market at 3.9% is still tight, but it is different in the hospitality industry. Companies are more picky about what they're looking for and candidates still have choices, but candidates are still picky as well.
[00:15:52] So while there's not the plethora of jobs that there were, there's still plenty of jobs to be had, but companies are being a little bit more cautious about who they're hiring and candidates are being a little bit more cautious about making a move and who they decide to hang their sign with as well. So it's still a very healthy labor market. It is expected to remain tight into the next decade because of these socioeconomic factors, but it is normalized and everybody's being a little bit more picky than they were right after the pandemic.
[00:16:21] Susan Barry: Got it. In episode 134 with Glenda Lee, we talked about first time professionals and how hotels and hospitality companies can set them up for success and I think there's probably a tie in here to the tightness of the labor market. I want to ask you about first time executives. So I guess, if companies are pickier now than they were a couple of years ago, can you talk a little bit about what companies are looking for at the executive level and how you help them find it?
[00:17:01] Brian Miller: Well, typically executive search, um, companies are even more picky because they're going to be paying your salary for something like that. And a lot of times they not only want the experience, you know, in their particular industry niche, like, just to give an example, these are some positions that we filled within the last month, uh, multiple managing directors for high end resorts, um, director of group sales for high end resorts, director of banquets, director of dining. Multiple executive chef positions for, um, restaurant groups. Uh, and then it just kind of goes on from there. So companies are looking for the experience in their industry niche, but they're also looking for good management and leadership skills where they have demonstrated that they have been able to run a P and L successfully and they've demonstrated that they're able to manage people.
[00:17:51] I think one of the things that companies are looking for now more than ever is that people equation. Because the workforce is different than it was 10 years ago or 20 years ago, and people are different. You know, they don't tolerate poor management like they once did, right?
[00:18:07] You know, candidates want a great opportunity. They want an opportunity for growth. They want to know that there's training that's available to them, but most of all, they just want to be appreciated on the job. So I think it's incumbent upon executives to have good leadership skills in terms of coaching and managing a staff and coaching and delegating to the people, their subordinates for how to effectively lead a team because the world is changing and people are changing and because this labor market is so tight, they're going to have to learn to deal with a completely different dynamic workforce.
[00:18:44] You know, I do this presentation called Generational Diversity In the workforce and how you manage people based upon. You know, the generational diversity, whether they're millennials or whether they're baby boomers or Gen Z, it's different.
[00:18:57] Susan Barry: Or Gen X: the forgotten generation!
[00:19:00] Brian Miller: That's right. So I think that companies are not only looking for people that have the industry experience and what they're doing, but they're also looking for exceptional management and leadership skills.
[00:19:10] And to your point, uh, the question that you asked about the prior episode, what one of the things that we do is we have to provide coaching to companies because sometimes their expectations are not realistic for what they're going to pay for with what the labor market is right now. And so companies are going to have to learn to be more flexible too in terms of how they're hiring.
[00:19:35] Now, I read a book that was a great book one time. It's called, um, Hired For Attitude and Train For Skills. Now, I understand that you can't completely do that with clients because they want a certain basic level of skill. However, you're going to have to be flexible. I think companies are going to have to be flexible in the future to learn how to grow those executives.
[00:19:53] And maybe they have part of the experience that they're looking for, but based upon, you know, their interview assessments that they do they have the right attitude and they can be career path and growth into that position. Because as the labor pool continues to tighten companies are also going to have to be more flexible with what their expectations are and they can still find really talented people.
[00:20:14] Like one of the things I've always done is kind of follow that philosophy of “hire for attitude and train for skills” and I've developed some amazing people that have worked for me and career path them into leadership roles. And I think companies are going to have to be more open to that as well.
[00:20:28] Susan Barry: I think there's a level of sort of institutional internal reflection that's missing because you know, I think everyone likes that statement, “hire for attitude, train for skill” but is not willing to devote the time and resources it is to create that training path, right? Or to say, here are the 10 things you need to do to be trained for X, Y, Z skill. It's more like, oh crap, we have an opening and, um, we don't have time. We don't even know what the training would look like. So I hear what you what you're saying. You mentioned diversity of like generational diversity. What are your diversity equity inclusion goals at Patrice at Associates? And maybe how does that play out in the recruiting that you do?
[00:21:22] Brian Miller: So, as a 3rd party recruiting agency, we are committed to diversity and inclusion in our recruiting efforts. Um, and essentially what we do is the hospitality industry tends to be a diverse industry anyway, um, and we're committed to diversity and inclusion in terms of our recruiting efforts. And when we present candidates to companies, we're presenting candidates based upon, you know, their skills and qualifications.
[00:21:49] But we also do a good job in terms of reaching reaching out to diverse communities to recruit those individuals so that we're sending candidates to companies that are not only qualified for those positions that can also meet the company's diversity and inclusion as well. We have to send everyone who's qualified, that's kind of what a recruiting company has to do, but in the sources that we use to recruit from, we're recruiting from diverse sources. So in that way, we ensure that we are, um, keeping our core values, uh, our commitment to our core values, which is to include diversity and inclusion in how we operate our business model.
[00:22:25] And in fact, in our core values - respect, excellence, service, and teamwork - one of those values is being committed to diversity and inclusion in our workforce in terms of the people that we have that are working at Patrice and Associates, the franchise community, that are that are our franchisees, and how we work with the companies in the future. And I think truthfully that's another area where companies are going to have to learn to um, be flexible because to be able to recruit the best workforce, they're going to have to be open to diversity and inclusion in the future as well.
[00:22:58] Susan Barry: Oh my gosh. There's so many studies that the numbers just bear out. Having more diversity is much more profitable. What would you do if a client made a choice that you knew was purely racist or sexist or homophobic?
[00:23:15] Brian Miller: Well, we have guardrails that we follow and if we know that a client is making a decision based upon something that's outside the guardrails of the EEOC policies and commitments, then we would choose not to work with that client anymore. We would decline working with them, close the job order, and not work with them anymore.
[00:23:36] Susan Barry: That's such a tough position to be put in. So let's hope that all of your clients behave appropriately moving forward.
[00:23:44] Brian Miller: The majority of them do, actually. We have really good clients, so we don't really come across that issue that much, but you have to remember I've been in the staffing industry for 30 years, and that's been my policy at every staffing company that I've been with. If somebody tries to give you a discriminatory order. or they're making a decision purely, um, you know, out of something that is not in alignment with our core values, then we just don't work with that person anymore.
[00:24:09] Susan Barry: We like to make sure that our listeners come away from every single episode of Top Floor with some specific and practical tips they can try like either in their businesses or at home. What are a couple of suggestions you have for job seekers when it comes to finding recruiters to work with?
[00:24:28] Brian Miller: So that's a great question. And this is one of the areas where, of course, I believe that we excel, but, you know, I wouldn't, I would say, just don't take our word for it. My advice to anybody that is dealing with a recruiter is you want to understand what that recruiter is going to do for you.
[00:24:42] What are the expectations that you should have of that recruiter? And the same token, what are the expectations that that recruiter has of you? Are you going to respond to me on a timely basis? You know, what are you going to do to market me? You know, ask the question, how will we work together? And if you ask that question, how we'll work together, you're going to get a feel for whether or not that recruiter is somebody that has your back or not, you know, or a recruiter that just pulls down resumes off the internet, slaps her logo on them and sends them to a company.
[00:25:12] You know, if, if it's somebody that really asks you questions, like where you see yourself in the next few years, you know, describe to me what your dream job is. You know, if they act as though they're more of a career coach than just a recruiter that's trying to peddle your resume, that's probably somebody you want to work with. And of course, I know that's how all of our people have been trained, but I know that there are other good recruiting firms out there, but a lot of them, unfortunately, we get a bad reputation recruiting because of the way they treat people. And I think there's dollar signs in the forehead instead of doing the right thing.
[00:25:44] I always tell every one of our franchisees, if you ever want to, if you ever have a question about what the right thing to do is, just think: “Is this the right thing to do for the person? Is it the right thing to do for the company?” And you'll know how to get your answer to that question. You'll know what your answer to that question is, right? If you're doing this for purely money or just to motivate yourself, that's probably not the path you want to go down. Because at the end of the day, what we really want to do is we want to help find really talented people and match them up with really good companies.
[00:26:13] Susan Barry: Speaking of companies, how do you think that companies, even individual hotels who, you know, are putting together job descriptions as we speak, what should they be doing differently to stay current in the labor market as it is now? Like, should a job description read differently? Should their expectations be different?
[00:26:36] Brian Miller: Well, I think the job descriptions, of course, have to include the key skills that they want. However, again, as I said to you before, I think they need a little bit, be a little bit more flexible in terms of the level of experience that they're looking for and also the benefits that they offer the employees, the culture of the company, you know, there is a section on there, here's what the person gets and all of that. That's more important now than ever because the labor market is tight at 3.9% percent unemployment, guess what? Candidates have choices too. You have a choice as an employer. A candidate has a choice as well. And one of the things that I find that companies don't really often think of is that they have to sell themselves to that company as to why a person would want to work there.
[00:27:24] So the job descriptions of course, have to have the standard, you know, skill classifications and all the things that are necessary for ADA and that type of thing, but be a little bit more flexible with the experience level requirements. And you should really be doing a much better job of beefing up what it is that you offer the employees, what's the culture, the environment. Why would somebody come to work for your company? Because when we do an intake with a new company, we spend a lot of time on that. Help me market your company. What do you do that's unique or different? Because when I'm, when a candidate has two choices. And they often have two or three, this company or that company, the thing that's going to tip it isn't always the money. It's the culture or the environment and what you do to make this a great place to work. Especially important for, you know, these younger generations in the workforce right now.
[00:28:15] Susan Barry: We have reached the fortune telling portion of our show. So you are going to predict the future and then I will call you out if you get it wrong. I'm just kidding. What is the prediction that you have about the future of hospitality hiring?
[00:28:31] Brian Miller: Now, let me conjure up my crystal ball here and see basically what it's telling me. I think the future of hospitality hiring is going to get, um, as I said, tighter and tighter for companies to be able to recruit talent. And I think what that means is companies are going to have to get way more flexible with what they're looking for and the types of environments that they're, you know, creating to hire people. You know, we have some positions in hospitality, in fact, most of the positions in hospitality do require people to come into the office. It's not necessarily one of those types of positions where, you know, it can be remote or it can be a hybrid remote type situation. Um, because some of these positions just require people to be there at an executive level where you have that flexibility to do hybrid, then I encourage people to do that, even within the hospitality industry.
[00:29:20] But I think companies are going to have to be more flexible. We have an aging workforce, whether we like it, don't like it, you know, it doesn't really matter. We have an aging workforce and there's a graying workforce that people are leaving. And some of these people are very talented, so we don't want to forget those people either. Maybe we offer more creative schedules for people like that, that so they can retain some of that wisdom and that experience and that talent. So the future is, it's going to continue to be tight, barring any unforeseen circumstances, God forbid, like another pandemic, there's always peaks and valleys in the economy, but overall, it's going to be tight. That means companies are going to have to be more flexible and be more open to being inclusive and being creative in terms of their hiring practices.
[00:30:08] Susan Barry: If you could wave a magic wand and create a new product or service for the hospitality industry, what would it be? The reason I asked this question is so that I can rush over to the patent office and secure this intellectual property before you have a chance to make a dime.
[00:30:26] Brian Miller: Man, that's really a tough one. I could wave a magic wand and create a new product or service for the hospitality industry. What would that be? I mean, I think it would probably be a management training program that would be able to develop people into managers and leaders because that's essentially what we do and it's very tight labor market. And we're going to have to create more of those people, I think in the future. You know, companies, big companies in the past have had management training programs, you know, companies like 3 M and these others. I mean, not so you don't hear about that so much anymore, but there was a time where people come out of coming out of college to go right into a management training company with a big, you know, organization. And we've sort of lost that because, you know, we had this plethora of people. We don't have a plethora of people anymore. So I think that companies are going to have to get better at creating managers.
[00:31:25] So a management training and management development program, you know, some hotels have that still, but I think that's something that if you could create a career path to helping people become a manager, I think that's going to be important in the future because you're gonna have to grow your own.
[00:31:41] Susan Barry: You're absolutely right. It's interesting. There is, I think, another obstacle, which is a slightly cultural obstacle in the hotel business, specifically. I'm not sure if this is as much true in restaurants, but I kind of think it is. And that is that it's always been an apprentice business. And so you can ask someone to spend $60,000 on a hotel management degree, and then require her to take an 8 an hour job when she has finished her bachelor's.
[00:32:13] Because we insist, we as an industry on the whole, insist that people work their way up and learn the operation from the ground level to the top floor, if you will. There, it's an, uh, an interesting thing that I don't know how to solve because there's a part of me that truly believes that if people don't have the experience of working in some of those line level jobs that they will never have the respect of their staff in order to lead them. I don't know. What do you think?
[00:32:48] Brian Miller: I mean, I think to some degree that's, you know, true that there should be some level of experience there. But I think companies are blindsided by the fact that they're not flexible because they think that this person has to be in this role for this long, this role for that long, and that's the beauty of a management training program. It gives people some exposure to doing those different things, but they feel like they're growing into a management position. They don't feel as though they're starting out, they spent $60,000 in education, they're starting at an entry level position, which is like, why did I do that? If I had to come into an entry level position anyway,
[00:33:26] Susan Barry: I could have done it anyway. Exactly.
[00:33:29] Brian Miller: Yeah. But if they know that there's a career, like you're going to work for six months in this position, you're going to work for the six months in that position, I think there are other creative ways that you can do that. And by motivating people. And you also have to recognize Ppeople's skills. I mean, some people that education has provided a level of skill to these people. And then some of these people are just naturally good at building rapport and developing relationships with people. And so you almost have to kind of do a self-assessment of people and see what their strengths and their gaps are.
[00:33:59] But I really believe that we need to see more management training programs. You know, across the board in hospitality, because I think that will, it's going to be required in the future because we're not going to have another Baby Boomer generation the next five to ten years. And whether we like it, don't like it, agree with it, disagree with it, the fertility rate is going to continue to decline, and that means that we have to get a lot more flexible about how we hire people and how we develop them.
[00:34:25] Susan Barry: Okay, folks, before we tell Brian goodbye, we are going to head down to the loading dock where all the best stories get told.
(Elevator sound plays. Elevator voice announces, “Going down.”)
[00:34:39] Brian, what is a story you would only tell me on the loading dock?
[00:34:45] Brian Miller: Yeah, you're really putting me on the spot today. What is this story I would only tell you on the loading dock? Oh my goodness. Well, I don't know. I think that, um, this may not be salacious enough for you, but I, what I will say -
[00:35:00] Susan Barry: Nothing ever is!
[00:35:01] Brian Miller: What I will say to you is, when I was a very young guy in this, in this industry, um, you know, I always looked up to my first mentor in the business, his name was Bob Snelling. And he had a, he's, alive today and truly a wonderful man in the recruiting industry, and I respect him, I love love him. But, you know, he, he was a strong personality and, you know, some people did well working with Bob and some people had challenges working with Bob. And, you know, one of the things I remember is walking into his office, and his office kind of sat perched high, because he wanted to look out and see all the people that were working. And there was this giant eraser in his desk.
[00:35:37] And it was like this ye big eraser, like so big. And, you know, like for the listeners, it was probably two feet long and probably, you know, six inches wide. And he wanted everybody to ask you, why was there this eraser on the desk? And I was like, you know, I'd heard about it, but I was too nervous to ask him the question, but I asked him the question.
[00:36:02] I said, “Why is there an eraser on your desk?” And he shared with me something that was very, um, inspiring at the time. And he said, “I have made a ton of mistakes and that's why I have gotten to be where I'm at, being successful, because I wasn't afraid of making mistakes.” That stuck, struck a chord with me, that giant eraser in his desk and I've never forgotten that. And I've tried to tell people that, you know, if you expect to grow, you're going to have to get outside your comfort zone. You're going to have to be willing to make mistakes because if you're too afraid of being perfect all the time, you're never going to grow and you're not going to get to be able to achieve the things that you want to achieve.
[00:36:42] So the thing that I remember most about that very simple moment is learning for the first time as a young 30 year old, wet behind the ears, that it's okay to make mistakes. And that's how brilliant entrepreneurs became brilliant entrepreneurs because they screwed up and made mistakes and they knew what to do differently the next time.
[00:37:00] Susan Barry: Brian Miller, thank you so much for being here. I know our listeners got excellent ideas and tips for their own job searches and for filling the positions in their companies. And I really appreciate your riding with us to the top floor.
[00:37:18] Brian Miller: Well, I am so excited that I got a chance to do that. And again, I can see why they call you the queen bee because you do an amazing job at this and, um, you've made this a very easy experience for me. And I am sure that's why a lot of people listen to your podcast.
(Top Floor Theme plays)
[00:37:33] Susan Barry: Thank you for listening. You can find the show notes at topfloorpodcast.com/episode/135.
(Top Floor Theme continues to play)
[00:37:43] Jonathan Albano is our editor, producer, and all-around genius. He even wrote and performed our theme song with vocals by Cameron Albano. You can subscribe to Top Floor on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you like to listen. And your rating or review will go a long way in helping us give you more of what you like.
[00:38:09] Narrator: Thanks for listening to the Top Floor Podcast at www.topfloorpodcast.com. Have a hospitality marketing question? Reach us at 850 404 9630 to be featured in a future episode.