Transcript: Episode 148: Aisle Seat Swap

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[00:00:00] Susan Barry: This is Top Floor episode 148. You can find the show notes at topfloorpodcast.com/episode/148. 

[00:00:13] Narrator: Welcome to Top Floor with Susan Barry. This weekly podcast ride up to the top floor features tangible tips and excellent stories from the experts and characters who elevate hospitality. And now your host and elevator operator, Susan Barry.

[00:00:32] Susan Barry: Welcome to the show. As a first generation Indian American, Seema Jain was allowed to choose between two paths when she went to business school, finance or accounting. When Seema's father became a hotel investor, she decided to learn the business as a corporate sales manager at a hotel in Chicago. When the 2008 financial crisis hit, Seema used cultural competence to move market share from her competitor hotels, which attracted the attention of Marriott Corporate and started the next chapter of her story.

After teaching hotel salespeople across the country how to work with guests from other cultures, Seema founded Seva Global to offer cultural competency training to companies in hospitality, healthcare, and tech. Today, we are going to talk about pickles for breakfast and the intricacies of doing business in other countries. But before we jump in, we need to answer the call button.

Call button rings

[00:01:42] Susan Barry: The emergency call button is our hotline for hospitality professionals who have burning questions. If you would like to submit a question, you can call or text me at 850-404-9630. Today's question was submitted by Shandy. Shandy says, “I'm taking my first international business trip and I am so nervous. I'm especially worried that I will accidentally offend one of the clients that I'm seeing. How can I prepare?” I think this is such a great question for you, Seema. What is your advice?

[00:02:18] Seema Jain: Oh, that's a great question. And a lot of people have that fear, Susan. So he's not alone. Um, really the best is do a little homework. Do a little due diligence, go online, read what the do's and don'ts are of a culture. Understand you can get this anywhere, whether it's on Wikipedia, travel books, anywhere you go. Um, there's, um, all types of resources nowadays that really make this easy for everybody. So I encourage you to do a little homework, spend a few hours before so you don't make that cultural faux pas when you get out there. And um, you know, that's the best way to start. But ask questions when you get out there and show interest in the other culture and people are mostly receptive to that. 

[00:02:58] Susan Barry: I totally agree with you. And I also think that there's no shame in being honest and saying like, I'm not exactly sure what to do with this teapot or whatever the thing is. Don't - I think people love to explain their cultures. I don't know. So, You know, just be transparent and act like play dumb and you'll probably make more friends. 

[00:03:20] Seema Jain: Susan, you actually nailed it. A lot of people just taking the time to show interest and finding the positives in their culture, they feel really good. And 98 percent of the population is probably going to be receptive to that and want to engage you. So, you know, go with a little bit of your gut and be authentic in whatever you do. 

[00:03:39] Susan Barry: I alluded to this in the intro, but can you tell the story of how you stole 2,000 room nights out of the comp set and started your path toward cultural competence work?

[00:03:52] Seema Jain: Oh, okay. So maybe we should use the word share shift.

[00:03:57] Susan Barry: I tried to say it in a polite way in the intro and now we're going to cut to the chase. It’s all hotel people listening. They know what you're talking. They know what you did.

[00:04:08] Seema Jain: Yes, that's right. And as you know, Susan, as a former salesperson for Marriott international, it was such a great experience. You know, you are hungry. You want to make your numbers and you want to do the right thing. So I sat in the lobby of a particular comp, a competitive hotel and watched. Who are these people? Who are these travelers? Where are they going? And realized that when I followed the shuttle bus - yes, I followed the shuttle bus, found out they're going to my account. I obviously am concerned like why is my account going to a competitive hotel? So I called the travel manager and said, Hey, what's going on? You need to really send your people to my hotel. And, um, she said, well, you know, it's right there next door. It's easy, right? We just make it easy for ourselves. So that's what I really had to think out of the box and work with a very, um, enthusiastic GM who was very, um, willing to listen to my ideas.

And at that time it was 2008, you know, things were very different, very different. We didn't have all this cultural understanding. And I basically just told her, can we do things to attract this ethnic group to your hotel, whether it's ethnic breakfast items or TV shows of their choice in their language. And by doing so, we slowly wooed them over and within three months, yeah, we did get 2000 room nights and moved our REVPAR from three to one. So it can be done. Um, you just have to have a secret recipe of a good salesperson, great GM and everybody working together to get to that goal. 

[00:05:38] Susan Barry: What I love about that story is all of the different things you did started with not being content to just sit back and let things happen to you. Like you took matters into your own hands, went and found something to go after. I love that story. It's so excellent. And that led to what you've called sort of an entrepreneurial job within Marriott corporate. I think you were attempting to replicate this in hotels across the country. Can you talk about what that job entailed and was it successful?

[00:06:17] Seema Jain: Yeah, absolutely. When I did this story and the ROI was twenty fold, like just amazing numbers came out that I shared it with my corporate team members. And they realized that, wow, if you can do it for this hotel, maybe you can do it for all at that time, 4,000 hotels. So I really had the best of the best of a large fortune 100 company taking me into a new position to be an entrepreneur. And really, I got to create the whole position. And what I loved what my company did is they trusted me. They empowered me to make the choices to create a full culture day program for the company. And I still do that for companies today, but basically starting with understanding anybody's cultural background from their core values, business protocols, social etiquette, holidays, food.

We can't just tell you do this and do that. You have to understand the person as a whole. to understand how to work with them and how to treat them the way they want to be treated. So the program was a wildly successful. We did start in USA primarily, but we had been to Europe, Asia, Middle East. We traveled the world with this program. And Susan, the best part is when you go to, like, Japan, my fondest memory is they wanted to learn about the USA culture, right? So now I have to sit there and look in the mirror and say, wow, we really are like this, right? This is what we do. So we're teaching all over, all staff members from front desk to housekeeping to sales events, catering, everybody. If you're interacting with the guest of a different background, this is going to help you become successful. 

[00:07:54] Susan Barry: You founded Seva Global four years ago. What kinds of things have you been able to do in your own business that maybe you wouldn't have been able to do in your past role?  

[00:08:07] Seema Jain: Wow, that's - I love this question. I have to tell you because it's um, there's so much at the beginning. I'm trying to be that corporate thinker. Right? And I have to now say, wow, now I'm an entrepreneur and I am HR. I am legal. I am the review cycle. And it really, it took me almost a year to realize that. I called the shots. I'll see who I want to see, I will talk to who I want to talk to, if I want the EVP of a company to come over for dinner - great. I don't have to ask anybody. It took me a little time to get there, Susan, but honestly. This has been such a great journey for me to help so many people in so many ways. And I make the decisions right there and then I don't have to worry about 15 other people making it for me. If I feel good about this, I'm going to go with it. I go with my gut. So it has been a phenomenal journey. Loved everything that corporate taught me. Everything I learned is great. But now I've learned how to pivot and adjust it to help others.

[00:09:07] Susan Barry: It's funny. I've heard this called de-institutionalizing yourself. But like when I started, I started my company a little over 15 years ago. And before that I had worked 10 years for Starwood. So same company, multiple hotels, but same company. And, um, when I started my business, I wanted to identically replicate everything that I was used to. The phone, the computer, my filing system, the way that my desk was set up. And looking back on that now, I'm like, dude, I was in a whole other business. Like what in the world? But it took a really long time for me to shake that. And I kind of went very far in the other direction, like I completely stopped wearing makeup for a while and like just, you know, whatever. But then of course I found my equilibrium somewhere along the line those 15 years. Talk about what you mean by cultural competence. How is that different from like DEI trainings, for example. 

[00:10:14] Seema Jain: Sure. Um, well, first of all, Susan, let's just understand what cultural competence is. I think people hear the word, but they may not be sure about it. But really what it is, it's the ability of a person to understand attitudes, values, beliefs of someone of a different culture. To learn to find the positives and respect those differences that actually make a difference. So well, I see DEI and there's so many great things of diversity, equity, inclusion, generally people think of like unconscious bias training, right? Traditional things that we've done. I look at cultural competency as the future of DEI. And I say that because our landscape is quickly changing in USA. So now our Gen Z, that future workforce that we have out there, 50 percent people of color. So we have to learn to adapt with all the different cultures that are coming into this country that are here and make sure that we know how to treat them the way they want to be treated or at least understand what their values are in order to better, you know, effectively work with them, interact with our teams and operate successfully. So it's an extension. I see it as the future of where we're going to go. 

[00:11:26] Susan Barry: What are some examples of cultural competence trainings that hotels, for example, might want to offer for their teams?

[00:11:36] Seema Jain: Sure. So one of our most popular packages is really geared to the catering world. Um, it's the social catering. And one thing, you know, Susan is whether we have a recession, uh, or, or not. social catering or anybody who's having a celebration of multicultural is going to go on. Um, and I'll give you an example. As an Indian American, we still go to quite a few weddings during the recession. Nothing fazed anybody. The money's been saved since the child was born. So when you're looking at how do you fill in the gaps and revenue, this was a big place that people saw as the social catering. Just to give you an example, an Indian wedding on average is $250,000.

[00:12:17] Susan Barry: Oh my gosh.

[00:12:18] Seema Jain: Yeah. So people realize it's kind of like a mini corporate event. So we are 3 to 4 days long. We have 100 room nights per night. It's a big deal. So that's been a package that's been really popular where we do LGBTQ weddings, Jewish social events and Indian weddings all in a full day. The other thing we do is we do LGBTQ+ and obviously it's Pride Month so it's a great time to, um, you know, help people understand this market as well and how to be comfortable in this space.

Our newest initiative in the last year has been our customers, Seva Global customers are taking our presentations and sharing it with their customers. So they will bring their sales team and customers together. I just did one last week. It was wildly successful for them because they got to bring something different than just maybe your traditional baseball game or a wine and cheese outing. Something of education with a multicultural reception at the end. So something fun.

[00:13:17] Susan Barry: Oh, that's cool.

[00:13:19] Seema Jain: Something different, right? Our customers are also global, a lot of them. And so how do we help them succeed as well? Um, and then we do everything from e-learnings for companies. So there's many things we can do. I like to stick with my core, which is cultural competency and then pivot it according to what my customer needs and take that. Um, people have asked me, can you do unconscious bias training? You know, I probably could, but there's so many people who do it well, Susan, that let them do it. And let me do what I do and stay in kind of my swim lane.

[00:13:50] Susan Barry: Gotcha. Okay, 60 percent or more of hotels in the United States are owned by Asian Americans, especially Indian Americans. What are - I'm going to make you give us a training right now. What are some things that a company that's selling to that community of hotel owners should know? 

[00:14:10] Seema Jain: Oh, it's such a great question. I do a whole presentation on this for those hotels that are hotel brands that have a lot of hotel owners of Indian descent. So two things, three things right away, tips right away. We are a relationship building culture, not transactional, which is typically seen for North America or Northern Europe. So you want to get to know and work with your hotelier, you get to learn who they are, who their family is, you know, understand who they are first, because once they trust you, it's going to be a lot easier to do. So relationship building is super important. And the other thing is. taking time to just show interest in them and tell me about your journey. How did your parents come here in the sixties and build that first hotel? Everybody has a story, Susan, let them share the story. 

[00:14:59] Susan Barry: And always those stories are so fascinating and so cool.

[00:15:04] Seema Jain: Right? And everyone's different, right? It's not a cookie cutter. Everybody has a different story. So just showing interest. And then the final tip I'm going to give you, and this is from a vegetarian. Chances are, if you're going to go out with an Indian hotel, always offer a vegetarian restaurant option and not just a steakhouse because you don't know if their wife might be or whoever's coming or their spouse or whoever. So definitely just make sure you have options that cater to your needs. to vegetarian and non vegetarian because there's quite a few vegetarians in our community.

[00:15:37] Susan Barry: Oh, that's a good one.

[00:15:39] Seema Jain: So that's something I would definitely say. And a lot of people actually, they tell me, “Oh, see, I've been working with Indian hoteliers for 30 years, but I never thought about that.” Yeah. Yeah. Right? So this is the smallest thing that will go very far. 

[00:15:53] Susan Barry: We like to make sure that our listeners come away from every episode of Top Floor with some practical, tangible tips. You've already given us some, but we need more for people to try in their businesses and their lives. Okay. I referred to pickles for breakfast in the intro because I remember being really confused at my first hotel. We had a Japanese menu and one of the things that Japanese people eat for breakfast is pickles, that's why I keep talking about it. Um, and it, this menu offered Japanese food prepared by American chefs to Japanese travelers to Denver, Colorado. And I just remember at the time being like, why would we do that? Like if they're here, they want to try our food, don't they? But you have a great take on this. Will you explain it? 

[00:16:47] Seema Jain: Yeah, absolutely. So Susan, let's talk about you and your travels and this will help put it together. Um, have you traveled outside of USA? 

[00:16:55] Susan Barry: Yes. 

[00:16:56] Seema Jain: Okay. Have you been to Asia? Have you been to Europe? Where have you been? 

[00:17:00] Susan Barry: I've been to Europe and I've been to Central and South America. 

[00:17:04] Seema Jain: Okay. So as we travel and sometimes it's a week long, 10 days long, 14 days long, we always enjoy the, the local foods, right? We're so excited to try everything, but sometimes after many, many days, even for me to go back to India, I love all the food, but God, by day 10, 14, I wouldn't mind just a little bit of something of comfort food of America, right? Like whether it's a peanut butter jelly sandwich or it's a slice of pizza. So I think what happens is you have to see where that traveler is on the spectrum of their travel journey. So if they're day one, yes, they might want to try all the new foods, but if they're going towards the end, they might just want their, you know, traditional foods.

So you have to understand that. And that's probably what happens to most of us when we travel. Um, I'll never forget when my kids were at a Renaissance in Mumbai and we were at the end of our trip and they saw Oreos in the gift shop. Like, can we get this? Can we get those? It was just like long time. We haven't seen this. So it's about the, the, where they are on their cycle. And also they love to try, most people do love to try, but after time you miss your comfort foods, you miss your comfort foods. 

[00:18:14] Susan Barry: You pointed out to me before that also other guests might want to try the pickles for breakfast or whatever the thing might be. So it's not like you're, you know, you're only making it for the 10 guests from XYZ place. 

[00:18:28] Seema Jain: You are so right, Susan. That's what we found out in our studies when we were doing things, whenever we did something with ethnic food items. It's the other guests that actually enjoyed it more. And if you look at our traditional continental breakfast in America, you know, it'd be like, you'll have your bacon, your eggs, your sausage, your potatoes, the traditional oatmeal, different things. But then you throw in like maybe miso soup or congee porridge or something. It's like, “Oh, I want to try that.” Right? They have the curiosity to, to have something different. So it definitely benefits all the guests when we have a little bit more multicultural cuisines at the same time. 

[00:19:02] Susan Barry: Totally. Okay. Any tips for how to recover if I've been culturally incompetent and made a mistake, like misgendering someone, for example?

[00:19:14] Seema Jain: Yeah, absolutely. So, um, this is really actually easier than you think. We are human beings and we're all going to make a mistake. Period. Okay. We know that even me or you or anybody who's traveled the world, we still are going to make mistakes. And the thing is rather than worrying about that mistake, when you do make one, you just need to stop, recognize it, apologize in a very authentic way and move on and move on. 98 percent of the population will probably be receptive to an authentic apology, okay? And the 2 percent that are not, that's always going to be there, but I'm willing to take the risk and have that 2 percent. That, that to me is important. However, that same person who's in the 2 percent category, Susan, that person could have just had a bad day. And no matter what you said, they were just going to not have a good day. 

[00:20:10] Susan Barry: Exactly! There are some people who can't be apologized to because they're never going to get over it. That's not our problem. 

[00:20:16] Seema Jain: No. And actually it's funny when you, when you ask this question, we did a LinkedIn tip about in April of what do you do when you make a cultural faux pas? So people ask, but the really simple thing is apologize with your heart and move on. 

[00:20:31] Susan Barry: Excellent. We have reached the fortune telling portion of our show. So now is time for you to predict the future and then we'll see if you are right. What is a prediction you have about the future of hotel sales? Since you and I were both hotel on-property sales people and have run far, far away from that now, I wonder if you have any thoughts about it.

[00:20:56] Seema Jain: Well, obviously my big thing for the future is I really do feel in my heart that being culturally competent as a salesperson will really help boost your sales. And I showed it myself in 2008 story. I still see it today. Every time we do a workshop with someone, Susan, and they come back to him, like, Oh my gosh, we got confidence. Now we're comfortable with the Japanese market or we're comfortable with a particular market. Because we gave them the tools and resources to do that. I think the best salespeople see things in a global thinking. They're looking at the world differently. They're trying to get diverse customers. They're trying to understand cultures. Because that really, at the end of the day, will drive your bottom line in a really organic way, in a really nice way. Because if we as hotel companies are saying we should welcome everyone, right, everyone equally, then we really need to understand everybody as well. 

[00:21:53] Susan Barry: If you could wave a magic wand and change one misperception about a cultural group, what would it be?

[00:22:01] Seema Jain: So that's a little bit of a tricky question there, but! 

[00:22:04] Susan Barry: I realize now that it does sound like a trick question. I didn't mean it as a trick question, but I hear you. 

[00:22:10] Seema Jain: So this is what I would say. If I could change one thing with this magic wand, the biggest thing is, and I don't want to say any particular culture, ethnicity, race, anything like that. But what I think is important for people to understand is that there's always going to be like one bad apple in any group, in any group. Okay? But we don't want to generalize that entire group just because of that. So when putting your hat on with diversity or thinking with cultural competency, just recognize that even if there's one person in this race or in this ethnicity that did something wrong, it doesn't mean that the entire group is wrong. So keeping that in mind, learning to not be so, you know, um, stereotypical maybe, but to generalize and look at the broader picture and say, okay, that's okay. This was just one person and, and move on and think the better, the better picture.

I think, you know, the other thing is when we look at people, find the positives always. Okay, it's so easy to find the negatives in a culture, but when we want to, we got to look at what are the good things about that culture. And, you know, I live in Chicago, Susan, I think the architecture here is great. There's so many great food places and establishments, but if you came to me and said, “Oh, Hey, Seema, I heard you're in Chicago. Isn't that the murder capital of America?” Probably not going to make it feel good for me, but it was all the positives of my city. I'm going to resonate with you more and I'm going to want to work with you more. So keeping these little things in mind is that stay positive and don't just generalize somebody because of one person in that group.

[00:23:52] Susan Barry: What is next for you? And what is next for Seva Global? 

[00:23:57] Seema Jain: You know, Susan, it has been such a great journey in four years to see the company evolve. And one thing if covid has taught us anything is learning to be fluid and pivot, right? You don't know what's coming at you and you make adjustments as quickly as you can. I think this year, one of my biggest, um, proud moments for the company, aside from the fact that we have seven people, five generations, um, all different ethnicities, races, everything. We try to be a diverse team because as many people know, the more diverse my team is, the more perspectives I get, the more successful we'll be. This year, one of our biggest programs is Seva It Together. Um, we're actually having a Juneteenth, uh, program tomorrow, South Side Chicago, and I've invited my clients to join me for a fun educational day learning about it. Doing some Seva or giving back to the community. So we'll be feeding a, um, unhoused shelter nearby.

So what we did is we partnered with a local black owned restaurant and ask them to help us feed 60 people. And did all this together. So inviting our clients to this, everybody feels good. They may not have something to go to, but they want to learn about it. So this is just one way we can do it. Seva It Together. How do we work together as a company with our clients, with the community all coming together to give back? So this is a great initiative that we're starting this year. And I will say my roots with Marriott International, definitely about the spirit to serve definitely has been instilled in me and want to keep going forward with that.

[00:25:34] Susan Barry: Okay, folks, before we tell Seema goodbye, we are going to head down to the loading dock where all of the best stories get told.

Elevator voice announces, “Going down.”

[00:25:47] Susan Barry: Seema, what is a story you would only tell on the loading dock? 

[00:25:53] Seema Jain: So I'm going to share a story with you that happened about a month ago. I was on a flight coming back from a business trip, very, very tired. And I was sitting in my aisle seat, which is the one I always sit in. In the, in like section eight, nine over there. And a gentleman came and sat next to me and he asked me, “Do you mind switching so my wife can come up here?” And normally I do try to keep a couple together, but I said, “Where's your wife sitting?” And he goes, she's all the way back in 23 B. I said, you want me to sit in a middle seat? Like, you know, 15 spots behind. So I said, “I'm really sorry, sir.” I said, “I would, I'm just really tired today. And I don't want to sit in the middle.” 

[00:26:36] Susan Barry: I mean, you don't have to give a reason, by the way. They can’t move your seat!

[00:26:41] Seema Jain: I know, but I still, I was trying to understand. I try to keep a couple together when I can. And I was a single traveler that day. So I just explained. He called his wife. She came up to sit with me and I thought, okay, she'll take the middle seat. I'll be in the aisle seat. How hard is this now? She comes in her Abaya, which is a traditional Muslim dress, okay. And I see her and she says to me and I'm sitting, she goes, can you move to the middle please? And I'm like, “Wow, what's going on here?”

I quickly realized. That the man sitting next, there was a man sitting next to me and traditional Muslim women don't sit next to anybody except their husband. Okay. So it can't be any outsider man. Now I knew this from all my education of understanding how to take care of a Muslim guest in our hotels. So I told her, sure, I'm going to switch with you. And it was an hour flight, it wasn't the end of the world. I switched with her, took the middle seat. She was very happy and I asked her. Susan and I actually asked her, I said, can you tell me what you would have done if I didn't switch? Like, what if I was a six foot five person and I didn't want a middle seat, right?

[00:27:48] Susan Barry: Or if you were me and I'm just mean and I was like, uh, sorry. 

[00:27:53] Seema Jain: She goes, she said very nicely to me. That, you know what, I do my best to try to do the switching and everything, but if I cannot, then Allah, which is their God, will forgive me. And she said it so nicely that I was like, wow, you know, that's pretty impressive. But what made me feel good is I was able to help her honor her values and her beliefs because I know that cultural competency matters. Now, I'm not saying Susan, everybody would do that, but first of all, everybody has to know why. That even was a question asked, and many people may not know that that, oh, you know, she can't she can't sit with somebody. And then it was interesting because I shared that story this weekend with my auntie, um, because in our culture, everybody's an uncle and auntie, if you're parents, friends. And my auntie's Muslim, and she was just so overwhelmed. She was, do you mind if I share this story with our entire community? You've helped all Muslim women.

And to me, that made me feel good that I can just help share something that people may not have thought otherwise. And of course, if you didn't move, there's no judgment on anybody, Susan, if you didn't move, but I was able to now, if it was an international flight that might've been different. An hour I can handle. Right. That is something that just really made me realize, wow, why does cultural competency matter? It's for these moments to recognize and understand. What you do with the action is fine, but at least you know why that question was asked. And hopefully flight attendants are also capable to know that if this situation happens, they can maneuver and help this woman, you know, be true to her values.

[00:29:29] Susan Barry: Interesting. You know, it also is one of those reminders of something that I have to continue to learn the hard way and probably will until the day I die, and that is that you never know what is going on. Like you never know, you know, She was outwardly presenting in a way that allowed you to sort of discern what the situation was. But what if she hadn't been, or what if the person sitting in that seat looked like someone who murdered her dad? I mean, that's such a silly example, but you know what I mean? Like you just, never know what's going on and being kinder than expected is always the way to go. 

[00:30:14] Seema Jain: Right. And that's something we tell people too is, you know, empathy is a big part, right? We don't know what the person's situation is. We don't understand everything. So being a little empathetic, it doesn't hurt. If you can, it doesn't hurt. So. That's it.

[00:30:28] Susan Barry: Seema Jain, thank you so much for being here. I know that our listeners had their minds opened and got some great ideas, and I really appreciate you riding with us to the top floor.

[00:30:40] Seema Jain: Aw, well, thank you, Susan. I appreciate your time today and allowing me to spread the cultural competence journey and story with everybody out there. 

[00:36:45] Susan Barry: Thank you for listening. You can find the show notes at topfloorpodcast.com/episode/148. Jonathan Albano is our editor, producer, and all around genius. He even wrote and performed our theme song with vocals by Cameron Albano. You can subscribe to Top Floor on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you like to listen. And your rating or review will go a long way in helping us give you more of what you like. 

[00:31:25] Narrator: Thanks for listening to the Top Floor Podcast at www.topfloorpodcast.com. Have a hospitality marketing question? Reach us at 850-404-9630 to be featured in a future episode.