Transcript: Episode 160: Sleeping on the Train
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[00:00:00] Susan Barry: This is Top Floor episode 160. Woo! You can find the show notes at topfloorpodcast.com/episode/160.
[00:00:13] Narrator: Welcome to Top Floor with Susan Barry. This weekly podcast right up to the top floor features tangible tips and excellent stories from the experts and characters who elevate hospitality. And now your host and elevator operator, Susan Barry.
[00:00:32] Susan Barry: Welcome to the show. Liz Owens is Senior Vice President and general manager of Vacations by Rail, North America's leading supplier of train vacations. With over 20 years of experience in marketing and brand development, Liz has helped double the company size and expand its global presence. Before joining Vacations by Rail, she spent 12 years at Papersource, where she played a pivotal role in the brand's growth and digital transformation. An avid traveler, Liz is passionate about promoting rail travel as a sustainable, immersive way to explore the world. Today, we are going to talk about trains, but before we jump in, we need to answer the call button.
Call button rings
[00:01:24] Susan Barry: The emergency call button is our hotline for hospitality professionals and anybody else with a burning question. If you would like to submit a question, you can call or text me at 850 404 9630. Today's question was submitted by Mark. Mark asks, are luggage restrictions and security the same on trains as they are on planes? I have this question too, Liz, and I know you know the answer. So tell us everything
[00:01:56] Liz Owens: So I don't think they're the same. I do think on the luggage front, which I'm sure we'll talk about because it's one of the hot topics of trains. You always want to pack lighter. And so your restrictions are really depending on the train where you're able to store and so because it does vary by market. And then as far as security goes it is not like planes. You know, you don't want to be irresponsible in what you pack and what you bring with and you don't want to be a danger to fellow passengers, but you're not going through the same types of checkpoints as you are on the airline, nor are you meeting the same restrictions.
[00:02:35] Susan Barry: So I think the big question for me is, is it the liquid thing? Like, do you have to bring a little baby bottle of shampoo or can you bring all the shampoo that you want?
[00:02:46] Liz Owens: You can, I'm pretty certain you could bring all the shampoo that you wanted. We always have our traveler, especially if you're going on AmTrack, some of your luggage, the larger luggage would get stowed away and then you want to keep like a small overnight bag when you're in your bedroom. So if you want to dedicate that space to full size toiletries, have at it.
[00:03:10] Susan Barry: You went to college and grad school with the plan of working in advertising, which you did for the first few years of your career. What appealed to you about that? I'm guessing it was before Mad Men. So it could not have been the show Mad Men. What was it?
[00:03:26] Liz Owens: It's funny you say that. I do think that Mad Men aesthetic was something that I was drawn to probably through some exposure prior to then, but no, the show was not on. I was late in figuring out what it was that I wanted to do. So I actually spent my first two years at a small private university playing volleyball, doing general studies. And in that time really started to grow interested in the idea of advertising. I think it was because I grew up around salespeople. My dad is a realtor to this day. I spent a lot of time with my grandmother who worked for the movie theater, Sears, she sold Tupperware through a lot of my youth. Everything she did was sales and experience focused.
And I think watching the two of them, they really loved what they did. And like a lot of sales people in that time, it was just a way of life. Who they were, how they conducted their day to day, it would open a door to the next customer. And so I think that experience gave me a good view into people dynamics as well as some hands on experience. I mean, having a grandmother like mine, girl scout cookie fundraising was, you know, a real skill builder. She would take you everywhere, teach you the ropes. And I think advertising was appealing because it brought the creativity to the kind of trading aspect that I was exposed to. And really to this day, that's my favorite intersection is really the art and science. And so I think that that's what started to develop when I was looking at school options, and it's probably still, you know, how I grounded my ideas of what I do going forward.
[00:05:15] Susan Barry: Are you like me? You know, I love streaming, obviously everyone does, but there's something about when I watch a show that does have commercials, I'm like wrapped. Like I love watching commercials now. I don't love watching the same commercial 467 times, which is what ultimately happens. But the first time I see it, I'm like, yes, that's so good.
[00:05:37] Liz Owens: Yes, I do. It's funny having a seven year old and you realize how little they're exposed to advertising in their day to day. But I think now that you have a dress school TV and these streaming platforms, you're almost delighted in who's able to have a small commercial. Now we were just talking about the other day, some of your small, really niche brands you'll be watching. And all of a sudden you'll say, Oh my gosh, an ad spot and how neat or beautiful or quirky is this? So I do think that world has evolved. Pretty significantly because in my days, you know, like the Coca Colas who could run ads now it's more accessible to people.
[00:06:21] Susan Barry: That's a really good point. I hadn't thought of. You spent a significant part of your career at Papersource, which is my very favorite store of all time ever of all time ever. I wish that I was like, a serious enough person to be like, Oh, tell me about your lessons learned and all that stuff. But I really just want to know, were you crafty before you started there? Did you become crafty there? What are the best craft? Just let's talk about crafts.
[00:06:55] Liz Owens: Well, it's funny. My mom was an early childhood educator. So the idea of crafting and making and kind of playing around was always in me. So I did think I was crafty and then I started there and it was next level. I mean some really talented people surrounded that brand. I mean, it wasn't just Illustration and design like the 3D paper art world is pretty incredible. Sue, who was the founder, really built the brand to be that. It was a community based store when she first opened it. And she really just wanted to bring treasures back for people to make and create. And so you know our teams really did stick to that and it wasn't just, you know in the back office where I sat it was in our stores, our customers were really talented. And what I loved is that this group who I could look at and think that they were just pure magic really could just delight in the art of making. So someone like me, they didn't care about the quality of what I was doing. They were just so thrilled that someone was trying and getting involved. And for me, I'm so objective focused and I very much set out to win things. That community really helped me embrace the idea of just enjoying the journey, taking pride in the process more so than the outcome. I mean, I still, to this day, struggle with like being fully present instead of like thinking about the next thing. And so working alongside those creators really gave me skills for life. I can't say I'm a better crafter. I can't say I do it more often, but I'm definitely a better person being around you know, the people who can really make some incredible things.
[00:08:58] Susan Barry: I have taken many a class at PaperSource for different stuff and come away with like, how did someone even think of this much less break it down in a way that my idiot self could make it and replicate it? Oh God. I love that store. I could truly spend the next hour talking about PaperSource, but that's not why you're here. So I will shut up about it. Stay tuned, ladies and gentlemen, for my PaperSource expose of my obsession with PaperSource. So what drew you to Vacations by Rail and are there pieces of your past jobs that you brought to the company or was it a big learning curve?
[00:09:39] Liz Owens: Well, you know, I had been with PaperSource for 12 years, helped get through the pandemic, helped get through a couple transactions from a private equity standpoint. And so I was kind of at a place in my career where I was looking for something new, and because I am passionate about travel, it piqued my interest. And then I have found that i'm drawn to roles that really focus on experience - maybe it's you know, the millennial piece of me where that's just such a strong value.
But across, kind of, my three chapters of my career, many of them have been focused on these big life moments, kind of the memory makers, and what is better than selling holidays to people who want to mark a milestone birthday or celebrate an anniversary? Or just tick the box and see a new part of the world that they haven't been to. So that kind of all started to come to light as a recruiter found me and then I started to meet with more people and it just sounded really fun and a good next chapter for myself. And then I think I really related to my CEO now, at the time he was CFO, who also came from the retail and consumer side. And just bringing that experience to a travel environment, I think that is really what sets us apart. Coming into an industry filled with all this rich destination knowledge, this global awareness, and then bringing a consumer mindset. It's part of what makes me excited to go to work every day. I don't know it all. I don't know travel. I'm not bashful about saying that, but being able to sit in a room with people who live it and breathe it and really start to problem solve and create. I think that's the fun part of the journey.
[00:11:35] Susan Barry: So Vacations by Rail offers more than 400 global rail tours. I'm so interested in how the company got started. Like why focus on rail? Why focus on train travel versus every other thing there is?
[00:11:53] Liz Owens: It's a discussion that Dave, my CEO and I have regularly because we operate in the UK and also here. And then we've grown so much in both markets. I mean for me, this comes down to the founders. Our two founders were passionate about rail travel. They had worked for a few other rail companies, and they just wondered if the U.S. market would respond to a tour operator who focused on this. And it's the classic founder story of, starting in the garage, putting a few marketing dollars on, having a website. And all of a sudden they came, they built it and they and then they just kept iterating year on year on year. And I do think the experience is different when you're opting for train travel. We get some people who are avid train enthusiasts and they're picking us because they want to see steam train or they want to see the differences in different lines. We also just have other people where it's a more accessible means for them. And then, you know, there's a lot of people where it's just a bucket list adventure.
[00:13:10] Susan Barry: I think that I fall in the bucket list category of a real traveler. There's just such a nostalgic and sort of romantic appeal, I think, to rail travel. What do you think are, and you may have already answered this question, but what do you think, you know, I'm planning a vacation. I've got set amount of dollars set amount of time. What makes me pick rail over anything else?
[00:13:39] Liz Owens: Yeah, it's a real consideration because it's slower and not always cheaper. But that nostalgia, that feeling, it's just not replicated. One, you know, you go to a train station and it's not like going to an airport terminal. You know, there is this vibrancy, you've got this urban feel, you get this like throwback to a time before every time you're there and it's a nice way to kick things off. And then when you're on the train, one thing we always remind people is there's no middle seat. So even if you're riding and coach, you're not cramming yourself into a middle seat. And when you're on one of these journeys, your ability to get up and move around and connect with other people is so much greater. You know, any more you're getting on an airplane, you're piling in, the headphones go on, the movies go on, the lights go down, and you fight for a moment to get out and use the restroom. Whereas on a train, people freely walk about, they go to observation cars when they're available, they have a meal. When I travel with my son, we play endless hours of UNO, there's just a lot more human interaction that you tend to experience on that longer journey. Then when you're really just trying to get from point A to point B, so for me, I think the consumer is debating, how much time do I want to spend in my destination and how much of my vacation time am I willing to spend on the journey? And then that tends to kind of shape, whether you consider our vacations over another operator.
[00:15:27] Susan Barry: We like to make sure that our listeners come away from every single episode of Top Floor with some practical and tangible tips and ideas to try either in their businesses or in their travels. What are your top tips for making the most of a rail vacation for travelers who are considering it for the first time?
[00:15:49] Liz Owens: My first tip really isn't even limited to rail. I think anymore when you're traveling, you have to stay open minded. There's so many people traveling, delays happen, for known and unknown reasons. And so just being able to, stay open minded that your journey may look a little different than what you set out to really helps you be able to embrace it. And then when it comes to rail, I think being present and seeing that that commuting part is part of the experience is really what sets it apart. I mean, you travel through Scotland and you don't want to be on your phone, scrolling. You don't want to be watching a movie. You want to be looking out the window and watching the landscape change.
[00:16:39] Susan Barry: I know we alluded to this earlier, but rail travel often requires that you pack a little differently from air travel or other kinds of trips. What kind of advice would you give about packing and preparing for that longer rail journey?
[00:16:54] Liz Owens: I am a firm believer in packing light and coming to a rail company only like solidifies that point of view. Pack layers, find things that have like quick dry material. I often find things to where even if I'm in destination, if I can find a fluff and fold or somewhere to just have laundry done, I will do it. Or if it's something small that I can do in my bathroom and let dry overnight. I just think it spares you a lot of struggle along the way. And then good shoes. Lucky for us, there's so much athleisure wear now to where you can still feel polished. You can still feel presentable, but you have comfort and stability. And so finding a good pair of shoes I think is, it's just really important. Not only for the rail journey, but you know especially as more consumers go to Europe. Like, they're not always prepared for the cobblestone streets and taking a roller bag through those. It's really hard. And you know, you can't always just have a taxi or an Uber right there curbside for you. You often have to go, you know, to a destination off the beaten track and so just being able to get there, I think, really makes a big difference.
[00:18:18] Susan Barry: It took me way too long to learn that shoe advice but I think I finally have. I'm thinking about walking in the rain from the train station in Rome to our Airbnb, getting lost, wearing what I thought were cute enough shoes for Rome, and never again, never again shall I do that.
[00:18:41] Liz Owens: Always err on the side of comfort.
[00:18:44] Susan Barry: Yes. Okay. So speaking of comfort, I think when people think of an overnight train trip, there's maybe a little bit of worry about sleeping on the train. Will that be comfortable? Will it not? I kind of think it would be. I like the idea of that noise, but anyway what do you think about that? What, how would you, are there things you can do to ensure a more comfortable overnight?
[00:19:10] Liz Owens: You know, you were talking earlier about how the idea of train travel has this nostalgia so you can very easily picture the daytime part of the journey. And I might be diminishing the experience if I say this, but you almost have to think about the evening like you would if you were camping. You know, you're hoping you're hoping you'll have a nice bright sky full of stars. You're hoping you'll get your sleeping bag in your tent just right. You're hoping you get that full eight hours, but sometimes you get a little rain. You have some dew in the morning. Sometimes the sounds of the animals when you're camping keep you up. On a train, what you don't always appreciate - I do like the rocking a bit. So for me, that's not a problem. Other people, it's hard for them to not be woken up every time the train's kind of swaying a bit.
I think the thing that people are not always mindful and it's mainly here in North America on AmTrak, because it's on commuter lines - or excuse me, it's on cargo lines and it's going through small towns. You underestimate the fact that the whistle will go off during the night. So if you can sleep with like noise cancelling headphones, that will keep you from having that like surprise wake up because the whistle blows, or you feel the train slowing down. But it really does vary. I mean, we have several customers who will ride the Via, this is the Canadian train up north and it's, three to four nights on the train but very far north into Canada. And it's an amazing landscape, but you're just consistently on a train. And then on that train, you can get what's called Prestige Class, which is like a hotel room. So you have really nice accommodation, a little more space than if you had like a room at or a berth. But you're still even with, a full size bed, you're still going to feel that sway. You still might have some whistling every now and then. So, hopefully camping doesn't make people think that it's not an attractive way to travel. It's still very fun. And again, it's a moment that like you just can't replicate anywhere else, so…
[00:21:37] Susan Barry: I think there's such a huge piece of being able to anticipate, like knowing what to expect. Because now knowing that I will sleep like a baby because I will be ready. I think it's the surprise part that's like, Oh God, I didn't know there would be a whistle or whatever the case may be.
[00:21:59] Liz Owens: Yeah. It's very faint, but there are some times you're like very asleep and all of a sudden it slows down and you hear it and you're like, oh man, I have to go back to sleep now.
[00:22:11] Susan Barry: Well, we have reached the fortune telling portion of the program. So you have to predict the future and then we will see if you were correct. What is a prediction you have about sustainability in train travel?
[00:22:25] Liz Owens: Well, sustainability is a very hot topic and very broad. And for me, I'm a tour operator, so I don't own my properties. I don't own the trains. And for me, the thing that I'm most intrigued by is the economic sustainability part. So with rail, you're going into cities and towns and sometimes villages that really the main tourism bringing anyone in is the rail. And so, you know, with overpopulation and big metro areas, I know everyone's heard about Rome these days. You know, it's just really nice on some of our tours to be able to go into a smaller community to explore, dine, shop. We use the Cumbres and Toll Tech line here in the states and that's anchored by two very small indigenous communities. And so I think that part of sustainability is the one that excites me the most and I think as the consumer seeks for more immersive experiences and wants to feel like the time and money they spend is benefiting someone that they feel needs it, I think that part is really like a fun part of the job to me.
[00:23:46] Susan Barry: That's interesting. That's an interesting take for sure. If you could wave a magic wand - you probably aren't going to want to answer this question, but - if you could wave your magic wand and just change one complete thing about marketing travel, not just specifically rail travel, just marketing travel, what would it be?
[00:24:05] Liz Owens: You were right in assuming that I would struggle to answer this.
[00:24:10] Susan Barry: Me too, because I could either make a hundred item list or better zip my lips.
[00:24:17] Liz Owens: Well, and it goes back to that, like being present and being open, like a lot of times the things that you didn't plan are the things that could make it good. So it's hard to say that you'd want to change it. But for me, the challenge, given what we do here is that there's so many things that are uncontrollable. So delays, weather, et cetera. And so, I like the challenge of trying to put together a memorable trip. Our tour managers do a great job of delivering on that, even when delays or weather come up, but you do have moments, as an executive in the business where I hear customer feedback, and there's someone who has spent thousands of dollars on a dream vacation. And due to luck, there's just been one thing after another, after another that has taken their experience really far away from what it was designed to be. And I think those are the moments that really kind of stick with me. And I wish, as a marketer, I, you hold some guilt. I've just sold this picturesque, Instagrammable thing to someone and they've come back and they got none of that.
[00:25:33] Susan Barry: Yeah.
[00:25:34] Liz Owens: So, I know I'm realistic to know I can't change some of it. It's just timing. But again, if it's a magic wand scenario and I could, I would want to make sure everyone gets a good experience.
[00:25:49] Susan Barry: What is next for you and what's next for Vacations by Rail?
[00:25:53] Liz Owens: Well, we are currently delivering on our 24th season. So my operations team is sending thousands of passengers out on fall tours. So we do a lot of leaf peeping in the Northeast. So that's an exciting time for them. My commercial and sales teams are really focused on ‘25 and ‘26. We have a cruise offering and that is live and available for anyone looking to travel ‘25. We have some ‘26 States available as well. And then, we've got some new tours, we've always. Had a lot of interest in Alaska. We've had one escorted tour that operates in the summer. This will be our first season with a, an escorted winter tour. We typically see more independent tours in the winter. So this is our first season operating a winter Alaska tour. And really just the consumer excitement, both domestically and abroad, is what we're excited about. It's really a good time to be in travel.
[00:26:58] Susan Barry: Okay, folks, before we tell Liz goodbye, we're going to head down to the loading dock where all of the best stories get told. Maybe this is the train platform for this particular version.
Elevator voice announces, “Going down.”
[00:27:16] Susan Barry: Liz, what is a story you would only tell on the loading dock?
[00:27:20] Liz Owens: Well, the story that came to mind was actually at my time at PaperSource, your favorite store. We had, I think it was around 200 stores at one point. And so we had several stores in New York City and Los Angeles, and they were often frequented by celebrities and influencers, because we had that creative customer we talked about and because of where they were located. And so our Studio City store in particular had daily sightings. I would go on store visits. I saw Selma Blair once. I saw Slash shopping the card aisle. And so the team was always sending through little stories and pictures about people who visited. It was really fun. Something everyone really enjoyed.
So back in, I think it was 2019. My team woke up to this buzz on social media and everyone was so confused what was going on. We didn't have any news happening. There weren't promotions. There were no events that would have caused this and we just really weren't big enough to have the level of commenting and sharing that was going on. So just like something happened. And as they looked into it, they found that Patten Oswald who's an actor and a comedian with a large following had went to Twitter while in our Studio City store. And he posted this picture of one of our tables, you know, with all the product on there and he tweeted about this - Twitter only allows so many characters. So it was the small quip about how items had mysteriously fallen off the table. And the store had told him that it was Little May. And as he started asking them more questions, they revealed that they had a store ghost and that Little May was to blame for many things that had happened. And so with him being a comedian, he couldn't pass up the opportunity to share.
And for some reason, his followers jumped on it. Either adding to the ghost story or people talking about their visit and how something happened. And so we ended up hearing about all these other mysterious incidents that Little May had caused and they were all very minor. Like something broke, there was a draft, someone felt something. And so my team had a really great time with it. The stories, that random moment of digital relevance, having a celebrity getting attention for our brand.
[00:29:55] Susan Barry: That's so awesome.
[00:29:57] Liz Owens: Yeah. And then when my executive team asked about it, they of course heard, I explained that it was a celebrity tweet that started it. And I watched everyone's face go blank because they did not know who Patton Oswalt was. When I told them this is what he said, they did not understand how that got as much traction as it did. Everyone was just so confused as to how that small moment in one store created such a stir. And so I think now, in 2024, everyone's probably seen the power of social media and how it can pull in these really mysterious ways.
[00:30:37] Susan Barry: That's so awesome. I just really want to know, do you think that store is really haunted?
[00:30:44] Liz Owens: Apparently, apparently it is a very old building. I feel like early 1900s. And as the store team started to share more they definitely were convinced that it was real It wasn't just for a joke. I hadn't in my time at that store. I had not had any interaction with the paranormal.
[00:31:08] Susan Barry: That's funny. I think Little May gave that tweet an extra boost to make it go viral to bring people in to see her in the store. Liz Owens, thank you so much for being here. I know that our listeners are now fantasizing about going on a train trip, I certainly am. And I really appreciate you riding with us to the top floor.
[00:31:30] Liz Owens: Thank you.
[00:31:32] Susan Barry: Thanks so much for listening. You can find the show notes at topfloorpodcast.com/episode/160. Jonathan Albano is our editor, producer, and all around genius. He even wrote and performed our theme song with vocals by Cameron Albano. You can subscribe to Top Floor on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you like to listen. And your rating or review will go a long way in helping us give you more of what you like.
[00:32:08] Narrator: Thanks for listening to the Top Floor Podcast at www.topfloorpodcast.com. Have a hospitality marketing question? Reach us at 850-404-9630 to be featured in a future episode.