Transcript: Episode 167: Compost, Compost, Compost

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[00:00:00] Susan Barry: This is Top Floor episode 167. You can find the show notes at topfloorpodcast.com/episode/167. 

[00:00:14] Narrator: Welcome to Top Floor with Susan Barry. This weekly podcast right up to the top floor features tangible tips and excellent stories from the experts and characters who elevate hospitality. And now your host and elevator operator, Susan Barry.

[00:00:32] Susan Barry: Welcome to the show. Amy Wald is the founder and president of greenluxe, a consulting firm specializing in sustainable practices for the hospitality industry. Her journey into sustainability began after years of diverse experience, from sales and marketing in Miami's hospitality sector to an unexpected role on a cruise ship where she found herself grappling with the impact of tourism on local communities and the environment. Determined to make a change, Amy earned a degree in sustainable business and wildlife management. Now Amy advises clients on sustainable strategy, certifications and green marketing, emphasizing authentic storytelling and avoiding greenwashing. Today we are going to talk about integrating sustainability into a hotel's core values, but before we jump in, we need to answer the call button.

Call button rings 

[00:01:38] Susan Barry: The emergency call button is our hotline for hospitality professionals and anybody else with a burning question. If you would like to submit a question, you can call or text me at 850-404-9630. Amy, today's question was submitted by Mina and here is what Mina has to say. Sustainability consultants often seem eager to distance themselves from so-called tree huggers and to align their work more with making money. Meanwhile, it's obvious that we are in an environmental crisis. So why do they do that? Why do they put up a wall between themselves and environmentalists? I don't even know if that's an accurate description to you, but tell me what you think about Mina’s question. 

[00:02:31] Amy Wald: I'll be very honest when I started down this journey, this is kind of the problem with conservation in general. They are very - I consider myself somewhat of a conservationist, but they're very siloed. And they don't have a business mindset. So I think the challenge is […] people, which it's kind of like back to the business case that we can bring those two things together. We can make money and we can be conscious of the environment and what we're doing to the planet at the same time. And that's a great that is a great question because in the beginning of my career I worried about what both sides thought of me. Am I enough of an environmentalist or a conservationist to be taken seriously? And talking too much about sustainability and love for the planet for my potential clients that I'm hoping to garner. So I think it's something that we have to work on. We have to have open dialogue. And I think that that's why these conversations are so important. So I'm grateful to be here, Susan.

[00:03:49] Susan Barry: That makes a lot of sense. It sort of strikes me that only appealing to someone's better nature or sort of moral compass is probably not always going to give you the same results as appealing to all of the different motivations that they face. You started in hospitality as a liquor rep, which when I was a server, I thought that was the most glamorous job in the history of time. How did you get that job and what led then to your switch to cruise ships? 

[00:04:23] Amy Wald: Actually, I was a cocktail waitress at Tavern on Rush. If anyone knows Tavern on Rush in Chicago, which is now closed, but it was in the Viagra triangle. Am I allowed to say that? Yes. Yeah. That's what they used to call it back then. So it made it a little embarrassing. I didn't like that connotation. But it was what it was. So I was a cocktail waitress in Chicago. We had this new brand of vodka in our restaurant at the time called Snow Queen Vodka and they had a contest. Whoever sold the most, I can't recall what we won and I'm always up for a good contest. So I won it and the owners came in and we started having good conversations. Nothing went from there. Shortly after that, I decided Chicago was way too cold for me. So I was going to pick the most southern place in the United States to go. Didn't know anyone, packed up my car and my animals, drove to Miami.

[00:05:26] Susan Barry: Oh my gosh.

[00:05:28] Amy Wald: Just out of like, just, I'm always one of those people. That's like, you never know until you know. So I just reached out to them. I knew they lived there really without any kind of pre-intent and we started conversations and next thing, they had hired me. So that was interesting. And then our president ran the company into the ground, whining and dining everyone in Miami — which don't get me wrong was fun. But didn't do well for our business and next thing you know the 2008 recession was hitting. And I went on vacation in Costa Rica - I've had many lives - and I met someone who was working for the company I would end up working for. So we had a conversation. He said, I think you'd be great for this job. And then I went through the, it was an audition to be honest at the time and the rest is history. I found myself working on cruise ships, which I never in a million years thought I would do. 

[00:06:38] Susan Barry: So say a little bit more about what that job actually was, because it's one that I don't think people know even exist.

[00:06:45] Amy Wald: So I'm not sure how much it exists today. I'm sure it does a little bit, but I do think it has evolved like all industries. I was a port and shopping guide. And so my company sold advertising to the jewelry stores that were in our ports of call. So my job on our ship, whatever ship I was contracted on at the time, I was to cross promote and just build as much as excitement and awareness for my shopping show on the first sea day. And so I would get hundreds and sometimes a thousand people in the auditorium because I was going to tell them everything they needed to know about our ports of call. And so five minutes into the shopping show, we went from telling you everything about the destination to diving right into how to go shopping. And so we lost a few people, as you can imagine. And I also didn't like that part of it either, but I think that's how you learn. That's where that, those values and what feels good to you and what doesn't starts to come into play in your life and you start to use that as your compass. 

[00:07:58] Susan Barry: Yeah, so that was sort of a moment of ethical friction. Can you tell us about the moment that you decided to focus on sustainability? Like what made you take that leap? 

[00:08:11] Amy Wald: You know, I hadn't put that completely together while I was working on ships. I felt very misaligned but I think there were other factors. I was homesick, I had never — well living on a cruise ship is hard! You're away from your friends and family and you're at sea for months and months. As many wonderful things that can come with that, there's also some challenges. I missed my animals. And I was sitting back and I was really noticing just really irresponsible practices. I had always been a big nature lover, an animal lover, and I was watching people just with complete disregard eat as much as they could and throw it away. I was watching us discard our trash in the middle of the ocean — because if people don't know, if you're so many hundred miles out into the middle of the ocean, you can just dump your trash.

[00:09:05] Susan Barry: Are you for real? I didn't know that. Oh my god.

[00:09:10] Amy Wald: Yes! So, I'm sure we would we could uncover many things in different, industries, but the other really disheartening - I'll never forget pulling into a port of call. A lot of cruise ship companies actually own their own island. So they use that as one of the destinations and they - it’s almost kind of like a fake island. You pull up and they don't let guests off for a couple of hours because all of the crew runs off and like stages it, like it’s an active island. And one of these islands that Royal Caribbean used to own — I don't want to speak to their practices today because I honestly am not fully aware of what those are. But at the time, Labadee was a Haitian, it's on the island of Haiti. And I'll never forget looking over this huge privacy fence and it was not an island. It was full of visitors where people were thriving and having a great time. And it just like, it almost takes me choked up thinking about it now. And I just have this moment of like, is this what I want to be doing with my life? This just doesn't feel right. I wasn't sure where that was going to go, but it never went away. And that just was maybe the beginning of that soul searching of how I could do something more impactful.

[00:10:35] Susan Barry: Got it. How do you think that the different areas of hospitality that you have experience in have shaped sort of your approach to what you're doing with sustainability now? 

[00:10:48] Amy Wald: You know, I love that question because I think you're born with a spirit of hospitality. And I really believe that I was, I have always loved the fundamental philosophy behind what hospitality means. So not even as an industry — someone coming to your home, cooking for people, I think there's many layers to it that are outside of maybe the business. But then I also do have such an intense passion for hotels. I can remember as a really little girl, I couldn't wait to get into the Holiday Inn and the smell and the sound and the little boxes of cereal. Everything about it I love.

So I started to realize later after I started this business, a lot of sustainability advisors are very technical in nature by right. Right? Data is everything. You can't manage what you don't measure. But I really come at it from a different lens. For me, my partners — that's what I like to call them — I like for them to feel like they're in my hotel. I want them to feel inspired. I want them to feel passionate. I don't want them to feel burdened by what I am bringing to them. And it's really about showing them that this isn't just another box that they're going to check. This is something that's going to infuse their culture, their organization with life, with inspiration, with joy and translate into hopefully making their job easier through guest satisfaction, reduced operating costs and the myriad of business cases there are for sustainable hospitality.

[00:12:42] Susan Barry: That is such a perfect segue to my next question. Can you talk more about what it means to build the business case? What are some of the financial benefits or what are some of the sort of key components of that? 

[00:12:57] Amy Wald: So, when we talk about the business case for hospitality, it's really about proving that what's good for the planet is also good for the bottom line. When I look at sustainable - successful, sustainable hotels, we really look at three major financial benefits that are driving things right now. The first is there's a direct cost savings. Whether it's energy efficiency, water conservation, reducing waste, green building practices. There are hundreds, if not thousands of dollars of money up for grabs, if you will, depending on the scale and the size of your organization. Second: consumer demand is driving these changes. So 80 percent of travelers are saying that they actively seek out sustainable hotels or will choose them over one that's not. And 78 percent of millennials and Gen Z say that they are willing to pay more for sustainability. 

[00:13:55] Susan Barry: I want to jump in just for a second on that because I feel like for my time on property in the hotel business and the beginning part of my consulting career, there was very much a focus on “If we do x sustainability measure, how much/ why can we add to the average daily rate at our hotel?” And what I think I've learned over asking these questions on the show is it's not just that part. Maybe that's the case as, you just said it was, I'm not calling you a liar or anything, my friend, but also it's the mitigation of loss. So do nothing, then I'm the last choice. So maybe making a sustainability effort or putting a plan in place is a way to mitigate the loss of that business to another hotel that has. I don't know if I explained that very well. Does that make sense? 

[00:14:52] Amy Wald: Absolutely. I use the word resilience a lot when it comes to sustainability and sustainable practice and hospitality, and I think that's a great point. Because you are ensuring that your organization is set up for future success and is resilient to market changes as we are seeing and going through right now. If you look at hotels, like One Hotel. One Hotel - those guests are willing to pay for sustainability. When you're paying, for the most part, you can't get a hotel room under $1,000 a night. And I think there's something to be said for as they are one of the fastest growing brands out there and their entire DNA is built on sustainability as a value proposition. So again, hard to quantify, but I think we can look to those kinds of visionaries and see what's trending. I hate to use that word, but what's trending in the marketplace.

And then there's a third real, large driver right now that I think often surprises people and may even see seem a little bit abstract. But sustainable properties typically have higher stack retention.

[00:16:09] Susan Barry: Really?

[00:16:10] Amy Wald: Yes, absolutely. And you know, back to those millennials and Gen Z - they're actively seeking out employment that aligns with their values. So when people, when employees feel proud, when they feel a part of the mission in the workplace, they stay longer and they reduce costly turnover. As we all know, hospitality has. And we're now finding — when I go into a hotel and we launch a sustainability program, you immediately see employees that just looked at their job as a means to an end, not everyone, start to elevate and start to inquire about a higherend position or a longer term. And they are so excited to get involved and be seen and heard and be part of this whole story. So I think that is something that is being overlooked - again, doesn't happen overnight, but it is definitely something that we see. 

[00:17:14] Susan Barry: You talked about being authentic and we also talked - or referred to greenwashing in the introduction. I always assume that people know what that means, but I don't necessarily think that they do. Can you explain what greenwashing is? And then a new term that you introduced me to, green hushing. 

[00:17:36] Amy Wald: So this is particularly timely because the regulatory landscape is changing. It's evolving, and the EU Green Claims Directive right now is on the horizon. And this is making that distinction between greenwashing and green hushing. And it's really about being able to give consumers confidence when they are choosing any kind of product, but this specifically for hospitality. So when you break it down practically, greenwashing is making vague claims like you're “eco-friendly” or you're “sustainable” without proper documentation or verification. And this is going to result in significant fines. If you are marketing to a European traveler, if they can come to your website at all, and that's not to scare anyone. It's just to say, let's verify what you're doing, right? Because most hotels out there are doing something. And then Greenhush —

[00:18:35] Susan Barry: I'm sorry. I just want to ask - so would that be something like, you know in hotel guest rooms, you'll have a split trashcan and it's landfill and recycling. And so if the hotel says “we recycle” but both of those bins are emptied into the same spot at the end of the day, that's greenwashing or am I wrong about that?

[00:18:59] Amy Wald: No, I mean that is that's the theory behind it. You know, we don't know how deep the claim has to be in order to be fined. I would think it would have to be a substantiated claim such as, “We're a zero waste organization!” But that is absolutely exactly what greenwashing is. Yes. And then green hushing might seem like a safer option, right? It's so hotels don't feel like they are at a disadvantage. They don't want to talk about what they're doing for fear of being called out for it. So maybe they are engaged in some practices, but they aren't talking about them because they are just afraid of — consumers are intelligent these days. Someone coming in and calling them out for it, or maybe it's just a little bit haphazard. Maybe they've introduced, like you're saying, a recycling program. Nobody's really measuring it. No one's been trained, any of those really key ingredients in making an initiative successful. 

[00:20:07] Susan Barry: Understood. We like to make sure that our listeners come away from every single episode of Top Floor with some specific, practical, and tangible things to try in their businesses or their lives or both. Amy, for hoteliers that are just starting their sustainability journey, if you will, what do you think is something small but impactful they could take on right away? 

[00:20:37] Amy Wald: Compost. Compost. Compost.  

[00:20:40] Susan Barry: I am so surprised to hear you say that. Tell me why. 

[00:20:43] Amy Wald: First of all, it is an epidemic, especially in the United States and the hospitality industry specifically is one of the largest contributors to it. We have a hunger problem. We have a greenhouse gas issue. It emits some of the highest amounts of greenhouse gases. So that from a do the right thing, impactful, feel good marketing, tell your story. From a cost savings, it is the heaviest in your waste. So immediately when you reduce and divert your green waste, your food waste, you are going to see your hauling bills just if you're a large organization, at least they're going to be cut in half. It is crazy.

[00:21:31] Susan Barry: I would never have thought of that. That's insane. Okay. So what you're saying is, put a composting program in place, like get a service to come pick it up or whatever the case may be. And then you will make up for that on the trash side, because all of a sudden you're, you don't have 500 pounds rotten lettuce in the garbage can.

[00:21:51] Amy Wald: And, whether they're measuring, every waste hauler is a little bit different depending on the municipality. So some way by poundage and some charge you per pickup. Regardless, you still win. Because you're not being picked up as much or you don't have as much poundage in your waste. Many, many cities across the country are implementing mandatory practices, so there's a reason to do it. There's just a myriad of reasons. But I always advise, get in touch with your hauler. They have resources nine times out of ten. They want to help you with this and they will come in and deploy and help you get the infrastructure together, train, a lot of times they have pdfs and images you can put in the back of the house. And again, it's another initiative that in the beginning there may be a little bit of a barrier right because some of your employees may look at it as extra work, but again, 99.9 times, it's something they're touching and feeling. They're watching it being diverted and they feel good about it at the end of the day. So it's really a win, win, win. 

[00:23:03] Susan Barry: I think too, if you explain the why, not just the cost savings, “why” but the planet “why” that helps. So I have to tell you, at a restaurant where I worked in the nineties, they had this, we composted. But instead of it going to a compost processor, I don't even know if that's a real word, but you know what I'm talking about, it went to a pig farm. So the farmers would come and pick it up like every day or every other day, these barrels of food scraps to feed their pigs. Isn't that cool? And also super gross at the same time. 

[00:23:40] Amy Wald: Well, the interesting part of sustainability is there are so many new commodity streams creating more economic value for our economy. That is very common. In addition to that, they'll take it and repurpose it and turn it into compost, organic compost that, and a lot of times it's a buyback program, right? So, not the hotels won't buy it back, but they will pay for it to be turned into compost and then they bring it back and they put it on their organic vegetable garden or their flower garden. And again, it's just that feel good. You know that your landscaping and your herbs are being cultivated by that wonderful compost. There's also a the Good Samaritan Act in the United States allows for you to donate food. It cannot have been touched by a guest or consumer, but you can donate that food. So it's another great way to divert food to a lot of our clients and many hotels across the country Will donate that to a local food bank or a shelter. So there's many ways that you can get behind that. 

[00:24:56] Susan Barry: What is a common sustainability misconception that you encounter and how do you address it?

[00:25:03] Amy Wald: I'm going to be bold with this: Sustainability is capital intensive. It is just not true. Sustainability, of course, it comes in all shapes and sizes. If you're looking to retrofit or do a pit, of course, that's going to be capital intensive. But if you are strategic and you plan out a few things from the very beginning, you do it the right way, you have a few appointed members of your team that are in charge of making sure of the throughput. There's a little bit of training. You're going to see financial gains and then you're going to take that money and then you're going to put it, circulating it back into the next initiative and then not next project. And so I get so annoyed when people talk about, “Oh, it's just way too expensive!” Or they're talking about their product comparison to the rest of sustainability and it's again, it's just not true. So I think that you can get started and again, the idea is the savings that you reap you refilter that back into the continued strategy that you've put into place.

[00:26:12] Susan Barry: Okay, so say you've convinced someone that it's not too capital intensive and they are all on board with building a sustainable hotel. What are some must have features for you that you think would be like the most important things to do? 

[00:26:30] Amy Wald: There's so many. Besides compost, water stations in your hotel. I mean, if you're building a hotel, it is such a no brainer. Again, you're saving money on buying water bottles. You're diverting that plastic. You're not using that plastic. And this is a consumer touch point. Customers may say they want plastic water bottles, but if they are not in the room and they see water filters, it is, I guarantee you your brand reputation is in a much better position than if you had a bunch of plastic water bottles in your room.

[00:27:06] Susan Barry: I cannot agree more. I mean, y'all, the airport has refillable water. If they can do it, hotels can do it. 

[00:27:14] Amy Wald: Absolutely. The other would be native landscaping. So I know that this everybody wants to put in beautiful landscaping, but the irony in native landscaping to wherever you are geographically is, it uses less water to cultivate it. So you're saving money right there. It also enhances local biodiversity. So over time you will attract native birds and native butterflies and native bees and everything will be healthier and it will be more beautiful, but you just have to give it some time. So I think it's such of simple, simple fix, but it's very important. The other is to reuse gray water. Again, if you can get a gray water filtration system to go back into your landscaping, so using your kitchen water and the sink water and all the water that you're using, shower water to go back in and water that landscaping, again just makes sense. So I kind of had a water theme but not deliberately, but I think those would be the three because they hit, not only reducing operational costs and customer facing but they help biodiversity as well. 

[00:28:36] Susan Barry: Very good list. So we've reached the fortune telling portion of our show. Now is the time for you to predict the future and then we have to see if you were right. What is a prediction that you have about the future of hotel construction? 

[00:28:51] Amy Wald: My prediction about the future of hotel construction is: We are not going to be using virgin wood. Deforestation is one of the biggest issues of our time. It affects so many things. It disrupts our climate, it eliminates species, whether that's animals plants. It just does such damage to our planet. So I think we're going to see that be obsolete. I think people are going to be much more deliberate about where they're sourcing materials, what kind of materials they're sourcing, and whether those materials have embodied carbon in them. So we talk about emitting carbon from energy use - but what people don't realize is - the products that we use, such as building materials, there was carbon used to make those materials. Not only in the production, but then they'll live in those actual materials as well. So we're going to see a lot of technologies happen that hopefully eliminate that. And the author is, I think we're going to start seeing a lot of 3D printed hotels.

[00:30:05] Susan Barry: Really? Are there any so far?

[00:30:07] Amy Wald: I think there is one, but it is over in Europe somewhere.

[00:30:14] Susan Barry: Okay. We'll have to investigate.

[00:30:16] Amy Wald: There are, yes, yes. There are some, there's lots of homes being built to help solve the affordable housing crisis across the country, but I don't think that in the U.S. there are any 3D printed hotels.

[00:30:28] Susan Barry: Well, we will keep our eyes open. If you could wave a magic wand and change one thing that would make the hotel industry more sustainable across the board, what would it be? 

[00:30:40] Amy Wald: Training. You know, you wouldn't just hope revenue would optimize your F&B programs, right? Technology, nothing is going to be left up to chance. So why would you leave sustainability up to chance? Training has such an opportunity to do two things, not only to make sure that your program is successful. If your employees speaking to your point earlier, don't understand the why and the how, they're not going to get on board with it. And you're, they're the ones that are going to make sure that it happens, right? They're the ones that are going to be responsible for those reduced operating costs. The other is the bigger picture and this is creating behavior change. And so in hospitality, we have such a great opportunity to create behavior change not only with our guests, but with our employees to now take these practices and implement them into their own homes and their own communities as well. 

[00:31:41] Susan Barry: What is next for you and what's next for your company? 

[00:31:45] Amy Wald: Well, sustainability is not a one size fits all so we are in the process of creating regional frameworks. So that depending on where you are in the country, you can adopt a certain framework that is specific. It's a road map that is specific to the biodiversity, the community needs, the type of organization you are — rural, urban, coastal, in a forest. So that's something that we're really excited about rolling out and we are in a growth phase. So we are hiring right now. I'm just really excited. I hope I get to have two offices and, a hundred women consultants working for me one day.

[00:32:28] Susan Barry: Excellent! My figures are crossed. Okay, folks, before we tell Amy goodbye, we are going to head down to the loading dock where all of the best stories get told.

Elevator voice announces, “Going down.” 

[00:32:37] Susan Barry: Amy, what is a story you would only tell me on the loading dock? 

[00:32:49] Amy Wald: I thought about this one. Well, I will say this. I'm not going to give you details, but if you've ever heard crazy stories about working on cruise ships, they're all true. If you can imagine living on a ship with 3,000 people for six months at a time it's pretty crazy. The officers, there is a cast system. It is, everybody is vying for their attention. I don't know. Just go watch Below Deck and just picture that times a hundred. It's a crazy, crazy world. I'm just going to say that. 

[00:33:32] Susan Barry: 3,000. Those are 3,000 crew members. That's 3,000 staff plus the people on the boat or the guests?

[00:33:42] Amy Wald: Depending on the size of the ships. Yeah.

[00:33:44] Susan Barry: That's a lot of people. Jiminy crickets.

[00:33:49] Amy Wald: Jiminy crickets is right. 

[00:33:51] Susan Barry: Amy Wald, thank you so much for being here. I know our listeners got some great tips about composting at their house - Hello! And I really appreciate you writing with us to the top floor. 

[00:34:04] Amy Wald: Thank you so much for having me, Susan. This was a blast and hope to see you again in the future. 

[00:34:11] Susan Barry: Thank you for listening. You can find the show notes at top floor podcast. com forward slash episode forward slash one 67. Jonathan Albano is our editor, producer, and all around genius. He even wrote and performed our theme song with vocals by Cameron Albano.

You can subscribe to Top Floor on Apple podcasts. Spotify or wherever you like to listen, and your rating or review will go a long way in helping us give you more of what you like. 

[00:34:46] Narrator: Thanks for listening to the Top Floor Podcast at www.topfloorpodcast.com. Have a hospitality marketing question? Reach us at 850-404-9630 to be featured in a future episode.