Transcript: Episode 171: Shower Not Included
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[00:00:00] Susan Barry: This is Top Floor episode 171. You can find the show notes at topfloorpodcast.com/episode/171.
[00:00:14] Narrator: Welcome to Top Floor with Susan Barry. This weekly podcast ride up to the top floor features tangible tips and excellent stories from the experts and characters who elevate hospitality. And now your host and elevator operator, Susan Barry.
[00:00:32] Susan Barry: Welcome to the show. Niamh McAnally has lived a life full of adventure and reinvention from actor and director in Ireland to scuba instructor in Key Largo. To hospitality leadership in California and the UK, Niamh's journey reflects a passion for exploration and connection. Her book, Following Sunshine, chronicles her travels across the globe, filled with volunteer experiences, self improvement courses, and green juice.
Today, we will explore Niamh's future. fascinating career, her insights on hospitality and the transformative power of storytelling and travel. But before we jump in, we need to answer the call button.
Call button rings
[00:01:21] Susan Barry: The emergency call button is our hotline for hospitality professionals and basically anyone with a burning question. If you would like to submit a question, you can call or text me at 850-404-9630. Today's question was submitted by Rudy. Here is what Rudy says. I am about to embark on a year as a digital nomad. What are some common mistakes and how can I avoid them? There is no one better prepared to help Rudy with their journey than you.
Niamh, what do you think? What are some common mistakes people make when they do this?
[00:02:00] Niamh McAnally: I think the first thing to do is to relate into your passion of what it is you're trying to do. There's some important things to bring with you especially if you're going to be in areas that are not very well populated. For instance, if you're a big reader, that's what I do now is I bring a Kindle with me. And one absolute must I have in my backpack every time I go anywhere is a sarong. One of the things I normally say when people setting out is don't let anybody else's fears for you. infect you and prevent you doing what you want to do, and I think that's something that's very true.
Everybody seems to have an opinion for you and what you should do with your life and how you should live it. It's fears for you infect you, if that makes sense. Like I would never be on the sailboat at all. If people, if I'd listened to people like, Oh, you're going away with the next murderer.
[00:02:55] Susan: I know.
I started my company 15 and a half years ago and you would have thought that I was proposing to, live my life in the nude in the Arctic circle. And here we are. You come from a theatrical family in Ireland. Your parents were renowned actors. Did you feel pressure to follow them into the business?
[00:03:20] Niamh McAnally: No, not at all. The only thing is both my parents were really consummate professionals. And that's one thing they instilled in us was to be a professional no matter what chosen career it was. But the other thing my dad, because he was in a variety business, if you like, we never knew where the next job was coming from. His main focus was to tell us, make sure you have another string to your bow.
So that if nothing is permanent in life, change is inevitable. So be ready to be flexible and to adapt. And no, they didn't pressure me to go into the business at all. I just had a love for it naturally, obviously growing up with it.
[00:03:55] Susan: I see. What was it like when you transitioned from the sort of creative side, the creative world of acting and directing to the more structured environment of hotel management?
[00:04:11] Niamh McAnally: That's a funny one because in actual fact, I find both of them fairly structured because even within the creative arts, you still have to maintain a certain amount of structure as to how you approach your job or anything else like that. Yes, there's variety within them. And yet for me, that was one of the beautiful things I loved about working in the hospitality industry is because you do have variety especially if you're into interacting with guests.
There's no two days are the same. No two guests are the same. So there's always something new. That's what I find so vibrant about hospitality is that you've got a chance to learn and to share every day differently.
[00:04:47] Susan: I think that's both the best and worst thing about the hotel business that no two days are the same, but no two days are the same for sure. I expected you to say that you thought both of those career fields were creative, which I also think is true. You have to be at least a creative problem solver.
[00:05:17] Niamh McAnally: Absolutely, I completely agree with that.
[00:05:20] Susan: What about the cultural and logistical challenges of managing luxury hotels on essentially a remote island like Sark where you were?
[00:05:24] Niamh McAnally: Yeah, so Sark is a very small island in the UK Channel Islands, just off the northwest coast of France. And the particular island I was on was only three and a half miles long by a mile and a half wide, and it was accessible only by ferry from Guernsey. There was no airport, there's no cars allowed on the island, and there's actually dirt roads, and there's tractors that could haul the goods up from the harbour.
And that in and of itself is 300 meters up out of the water. We got goods held, pulled up that way. But the logistics of it was that we had to really plan ahead in terms of dry goods and laundry needs. They got sent out to Guernsey and if you didn't anticipate your laundry needs and how fast you were turning over the hotel, then you wouldn't have enough. And if the boat couldn't come because the weather got bad. You’d be out of sheets, literally. So that was one of the logistical ends of it.
Culturally for me at the point of, at the end of, I think was there five years altogether, I was also the human resources director for the entire chain of the four of the six hotels. And one of the things I found when I was interviewing people for work was, not to ask them, usually there's their experience skill sets that you would under normal circumstances, but in this instance, I had to ask them more or less about what their hobbies and interests were. Because if they were the kind of person who liked to read books, go for long walks, enjoy nature, they were the perfect candidate. And if they had a decent personality, I could then teach them the hospitality skills they would need for the job.
But if their whole personality was based on night life, shopping, main cities, no matter how good they were in their job and hospitality, they would be miserable on the island. And as we know, if you're not coming to work in a good mood, that is going to permeate through the rest of the staff and ultimately onto the guest. So you really do have to come with a happy disposition. And I thought that was a better thing for me to hire people with a naturally happy disposition who were, who would be comfortable in that kind of an environment.
[00:07:33] Susan: Did most of the staff come from those islands or come from abroad?
[00:07:37] Niamh McAnally: Some came from, very few people actually came from the island. There were some people local on the island. There was a lot came in from England. But the majority of our staff actually came from Eastern Europe. A lot from Hungary, from Romania and, Greece. And where else do we have, it was at times, it was a lot of people that were in countries that were going through recessions or had more economic situations. Now, some of the people in their own countries were attorneys, they were psychologists, they were like fully fledged professional careers, but couldn't find work in their home country.
And I found that fascinating insofar as how amazing these human beings were, because they, one of the girls was working in housekeeping. She's changing sheets and she's cleaning bathrooms, and yet she's a career minded person. She was a psychologist, so you do have to be very adaptable, I think, within the industry as well.
[00:08:29] Susan: I've had that experience at hotels where, you know, folks who would never expect had been doctors, and lawyers, and teachers, and nurses in their past lives. What about the guests that came to SARC? What was the appeal? Just an escape? Or?
[00:08:46] Niamh McAnally: Yeah, I think so. I think it, because it's a, it's an island where you can step back in time. Literally. It was under feudal law right up until 2008.
[00:09:14] Susan: What?
[00:09:15] Niamh McAnally: Yes, it was feudal law up at that point. And then democracy came in 2008. That's how far or how recent it is. That actually happened about two years right before I arrived.
[00:09:05] Susan: Wait, can you explain what that means?
[00:09:07] Niamh McAnally: So that means that they had. If I can remember the history of it, back in the day of Queen Elizabeth the first, suggested that she would take 40 families from the island of Jersey, I believe, and populate the island of Sark, and they divided up the island into 40 tournaments. And right now Sark is considered a crown dependency of the UK.
But it has its own government. And so the government is made up from, that's when the voting started, but the senior was the main, for want of a better word, monarch, if you like, that ran the island. And now we still have a senior, but at the same time it's run by a democracy of the government. And those descendants from those original 40 families still live on the island.
[00:09:55] Susan: Oh, wow. That is unbelievable. I can tell I have some reading to do about Sark for sure. Speaking of reading, your book Following Sunshine is about travel, but it's about so much more than travel. It's about pushing past obstacles. What inspired you to share your story in this book?
[00:10:17] Niamh McAnally: So yeah it's officially a memoir, but I wrote it in a way to read like a novel. And the idea is it's my story, but it's not really about me. That wasn't my goal. My goal was to share any of the insights I had learned in the five different careers I've had throughout my life in the five different industries. And also in all the different countries I've traveled to around the world, primarily as a volunteer.
And so the subtitle of the book, it's Following Sunshine, A Voyage Around the Mind, Around the World, and Around the Heart. And I've already had readers come to me and say, this part really spoke to me because I could identify with that. And, or I'm going through a similar situation. And that to me was the goal. And I think for any writer, if you feel you've reached even one reader, the whole like workload involved in writing a book and having it published, is worth it.
[00:11:11] Susan: You can consider now two readers because I absolutely loved this book. In the book you describe taking a year long journey volunteering around the world. What made you decide to do that? And did it at all change your perspective on travel and on work?
[00:11:31] Niamh McAnally: Sure. First of all, from a very young age, I always wanted two things. I wanted to work at sea and I always wanted to travel around the world in one direction and arrive at the same spot I left from.
[00:11:42] Susan: Oh, okay.
[00:11:43] Niamh McAnally: Yeah. So it's circumnavigating, but not by boat, but by plane. And at the end of 2014, the owners of the four hotels that I was involved in on SARC for political reasons decided not to open in 2015. Now previously, we used to be year round hotels, and the year before they had gone from year round to seasonal and I had a lot of employees that we had to, let go about a hundred employees during that winter.
And I really, they were very well trained, they did fine dining and all the restaurants. So I really wanted them all to come back. But how do you send them off for a couple of months and then say, Oh, if you find another job, we need to drop that one, come back to us. We couldn't do that.
So that, that point, then I said, I found this website called Workaway.info, and in it you could it was a volunteer site that was connecting would be volunteers with would be hosts. And all of these projects were based on the concept if you volunteered five hours a day, five days a week, in exchange for food and lodging, that's what the host would have you work for them and they would put a roof over your head and food in on your tummy. And when the hotel decided they weren't opening in 2015, I said this is my opportunity, I'm going to take a year out now and do it now. So the concept was already there, but the timing, it's one door closes, then, it's time to open the next one.
[00:13:07] Susan: Got it. And as I remember from the book, you had a variety of experiences as a volunteer. Can you describe a few of those and maybe what could someone on the other end listening to this right now expect if they decided to do the same thing?
[00:13:26] Niamh McAnally: Absolutely. So most of my work, because I was trained as a scuba instructor, most of my work I'm really passionate about is evolves around the marine life. So many of them were marine conservations. One of them was on the turtle beaches in the South Pacific on Vanuatu. Which has a turtle nesting beach. And when I was there during a period of time where the little turtles were hatching, which was quite extraordinary.
Another one I did was on dolphin research in off the coast of Kenya with the Watauma Marine Association, and they were documenting the impact that the local environment was having on the dolphins. Another one was volunteering for an amazing Australian family who lived in the kingdom of Tonga in the Philippines. On a catamaran and they had two teenage children and my job was to tutor them and try and get their assignments in on time to their distant learning in Australia. Although by the time I got there, it turned out they had started to eke out an existence on one of the very remote islands. And so there was no internet and no cell service. Welcome to homeschooling. So we adapted on that was an amazing experience and superb family.
So various different items like that. Another one in Palau I did was actually working in a hostel. So I was used, that was really interesting for me because it was back to, the hospitality business. And in New Zealand, I did one where there was this very young entrepreneurial family who are setting up what they wanted, an equine hospitality business. So they want, they had vineyards on this island, off the coast of Auckland, and they wanted to set up something where guests would come and they would ride horses through the vineyards and have a horse kind of event. So those were some of the most exciting ones, that I did.
[00:15:02] Susan: Did any end in disaster?
[00:15:05] Niamh McAnally: Well, yes, but no. So what I tried to do is prevent disasters happening. There was two, and this is one thing I would advise people who are looking to go volunteer traveling. Try and do as much research as you possibly can in advance.
You got to know your own personal limits and you got to know what to expect. And there was two projects I actually, what's the best word to put this? Just to say, this is not for me. This is not a good circumstance for me to be in. And one of them was on a project in Malaysia, where it was beautiful, it was on the water, and they were bringing guests out for sunset cruises. But having taught food safety in the hotels and seeing what was going on, I was like, Oh my God, this was, I was only there for supposed to be two or three weeks. And I was like, this is insane. Somebody is going to get seriously sick here. You know what I mean? And I was like, I can't be part of this.
And I wasn't going to be there long enough to be able to make a change and for them to adapt to the changes that we would need. And especially it was on the boat. They weren't letting people wash their hands. They weren't using water. They were using no gloves. It was, it was less than ideal. So from that one, I said, I'm sorry, this isn't going to work out for me. And they had other volunteers. So I didn't feel like I was leaving them in the lurch, but rather than it turned out for a disaster for me, I said, no, this is not right, I'm not in the right spot. So had I done a little bit more research on that one, maybe that may not have happened.
And another one was teaching English in Vietnam. And that was totally on me. I discovered that I don't do well, I know I don't do well in cities, but the effect of the scooters and the hooters and the horns and that some people find atmospheric, like in downtown Hanoi in the old quarter, to me was like an aural nightmare. I couldn't handle it. Just the noise was drilling holes in my brain. I was like, I can't live like this. I couldn't do it. So those were the two I would say that were less than ideal.
[00:17:02] Susan: Would you do it again?
[00:17:04] Niamh McAnally: Volunteer travel?
[00:17:05] Susan: Yes.
[00:17:06] Niamh McAnally: Absolutely. A hundred percent. I would start off and go around again.
[00:17:09] Susan: Excellent. We like to make sure that our listeners come away from every episode of Top Floor with some practical, specific tips they can try in their businesses and their travels. For people considering a career in hospitality, what lessons from your time managing hotels would you share with them?
[00:17:31] Niamh McAnally: I think one of the things in hospitality that we have to adopt is flexibility and adaptability. And that's one thing that you learn through traveling for sure as well. I have five habits you should develop in order to make hospitality a chance, hospitality and travel a chance for personal growth. And one of them is curiosity, the other is adaptability, minimalism, ‘cause I think we need to look at that.
[00:18:36] Susan: Which is a hard one.
[00:18:37] Niamh McAnally: It’s a hard one. And the other one, it really is gratitude and to try and really be grateful for what you do have. And I think travel teaches you that enormously. Things you forget that you could be grateful for. You know what I mean? And I think if you know your passion about what you're passionate about, I think that helps drive you both in travel and also in career. And if you identify the items that really sing to you, and if you then ask yourself, is that something I could make a living doing, then that's, what's the next baby step to take yourself on that path to that career?
If it's not something you can earn a living at, then it's your hobby. Do you know what I mean? Because, and I also know that some people have turned their hobbies into their careers and then it suddenly is not something they enjoy anymore. And it doesn't matter what job is out there, there's a percentage of every single job that has parts that you don't like to do.
[00:19:01] Susan: It’s interesting that you bring that up because I forgot this, but you and I are both fans of Derek Sivers. And one of the things that I think about all the time about Derek Sivers, is the idea that everything does not have to be monetized. Everything does not have to have a, an income purpose or, have to be like driving towards scaling or everything else. You can just do it because it's fun. Much like this show. It's fun.
[00:19:30] Niamh McAnally: And also to add to that, I also think that once you have established what it is you're passionate about, you're going to show up. As a better individual in no matter what you do in life, whether it's your job, whether it's a career, whether it's a profession, whether it's travel or fun events. And also the one thing I've learned through travel is listen to your instincts because they will always serve you.
[00:19:56] Susan: Can you think of a time that you didn't listen to your instincts?
[00:20:00] Niamh McAnally: Yeah, there's been a number of ones where I haven't, and you get that little thing at the back of your neck and kind of goes, maybe, and once you get that little niggle of a thing, if you ignore it, it's going to represent itself in some other way.
And like for instance, that was an example for me in Vietnam. It was like, I got that. And I was like, you know what? And I normally, when I was younger, I would have just persevered. Oh I signed up for this. I have to do it. And the older I get, the more I trust myself and the more I listen to those instincts. And where I've gone wrong in life is always when I haven't listened to my own gut. And I haven't had the confidence to listen to my own gut.
[00:20:36] Susan: I couldn't agree more. It's absolutely true for me. For aspiring volunteer travelers, which I think I am one now, by the way, after reading your book, what practical tips would you give to ensure that they have both a meaningful and successful trip?
[00:20:53] Niamh McAnally: I think that's part of it is those things we talked about. Get that curiosity down. Learn to live with less and enjoy the moment and be ready for change. Be ready for the things that are going to go wrong. Things are going to go wrong in terms of traveling for sure. It's, and then two things that I take out of that, well let's take an example of a plane, getting canceled or delayed or something else like that.
I start to ask myself a question, why is this happening for me, as opposed to why is this happening to me? Or even worse is, why is this always happening to me? What you tell your own brain is super important. So why is this happening for me? And so my first answer to that is, where's the gift in this? I gotta look for the gift. There's some gift that is coming out of this. What is it?
Now, sometimes it can be really tough and you go, I can't find anything to be happy about in this. Then I'll ask myself, what's the lesson this situation is presenting for me? What do I need to learn from this? Not to either repeat it or be in a similar situation again. And I think those are important things, especially when you're traveling and setting out in a career.
[00:22:02] Susan: It's true. It applies to both for absolute sure. Okay. If you could relive one of the adventures that you've had, one of the things you described in your book, what would it be and why?
[00:22:15] Niamh McAnally: Okay. Two places on the top of my so called bucket list for years and years were the Aurora Borealis, to see the Northern Lights, and the other one was Bora Bora in French Polynesia. And I ended up, believe it or not, in the same year doing both.
[00:23:22] Susan: Oh, wow.
[00:22:23] Niamh McAnally: Yeah, amazing. And two things, the Aurora, one of the things about that was I chose to do something else so that if the lights didn't show up, I wouldn't be disappointed. So I took a photography class to learn how to photograph the Aurora, but I also got to do these reindeer sleigh rides and all sorts of things. So it was going to be magical anyway, but I was so blessed the year I went because it was one of the major, geomagnetic storm years. And so it was absolutely stunning.
But to top that has to be Bora Bora, and the reason, in French Polynesia, and the reason why is because A, for me being a water baby and loving scuba diving snorkeling, it's the most incredible blue water, gorgeous reefs that I've ever seen. But the real reason that it's so important to me is because I kept putting it off because Bora Bora is A, the honeymoon capital of the world and B, it is probably one of the most expensive destinations in the world to go to. And so I kept putting it off for those reasons.
At the time when I started out on that year's journey, I was divorced, I was single, I didn't have a ton of money in my pocket. And so I said, I was down in South Pacific for the third time, I think in three years. And I said, you know what? I can't keep putting this off. So I found a little pension on the main island of Aitapi and I ended up going out to the resort islands just as a day trip. So I got that experience.
And then I realized, the funniest part about it was I was so concerned about, Oh, I'll be single walking along with the beach, and there'll be all these lovey dovey people all around me. And I was like, that's going to make me feel even worse. And when I was there on one of the resort islands, I was sitting down for lunch, toes in the sand, looking at the amazing lagoon. And I was all by myself. And I looked around, I realized I'd been single so long at that stage, I'd forgotten the obvious. Everybody who was there on honeymoon was back in their bungalows honeymooning!
So I had the entire place. So that lesson, that taught me was never put off a dream because all we have is now. And, can you imagine if I, on my deathbed and going, I could have, should have, would have. So that was the biggest lesson. So if I could go, my husband, Gary hasn't been to Bora Bora yet. And so I'm hoping maybe we can make another trip back.
[00:24:52] Susan: Oh, I hope so too. Now from looking backward, we're going to look forward because we have reached the fortune telling portion of our show. So you have to predict the future and then we'll come back later and see if you were right. What is a prediction that you have about the future of volunteer travel?
[00:25:10] Niamh McAnally: I think it's going to grow. I really do. I think that, I think generally speaking, we're becoming more conscious, if you like. I think we're becoming more aware of our neighbor, not just next door, but across the world. I think the pandemic certainly enlightened us all that we are all global citizens and we, the butterfly effect, we do something in one country, it can affect somebody else in another country. So I do think the concept of trying to help each other out and explore each other's cultures, I think that's going to grow. And I think that volunteer travel will show up.
Back in the day, it used to be, Oh, it was like doctors without borders, or engineers who could build roads and stuff like that, that were out there and volunteer projects. Now it can be non skill based. Do you know what I mean? Anybody can go and do any version, so many different projects, even small mom and pop people who want to have help in their home, even, but you get to experience the culture and the language and the country. So I do think it's going to grow.
[00:26:09] Susan: Yeah, when I was, gap year aged, the only thing that was available was the Peace Corps and you had to sign on for what seemed like an outrageously long amount of time. So it's exciting to hear things like your stories about two and three week opportunities where you can dip your toe in, do a little bit and then, know, move on.
[00:26:29] Niamh McAnally: And on that, another prediction of it is like you just mentioned gap year, which was student age kind of thing. I think that's also going to change. I think seniors, people who are like early retirees, they're doing a lot more volunteer travel as well. And I think you'll see the age will spread and with digital nomad possibilities now for people. I think a lot of people are not in, I'm going into work now, I'm age 20, I'll come out when I'm 65. People are taking many retirements throughout their life when they're younger. And I think that's super important to do because God knows whether your health will be in good shape by the time you're 65 and go somewhere.
[00:27:05] Susan: It's absolutely true. And that may be the answer to my next question. But just in case, if you could wave a magic wand and change one thing about how people approach their careers, what would it be?
[00:27:18] Niamh McAnally: I think that is it. I think that it doesn't have to be a golden handcuff for, 45 years or something like that. I think you can break it up. And also back in the day, if you were to look up my resume and you were hiring, or I was applying for a job. And you look to my resume, and go, Oh this woman is a complete flight risk. She's done this, she's done that, she's been all over the place. And I think that in the hiring world has changed also. And I think now more people are seeing that as, Oh, this person has so much more to bring to the table. And I think that has changed radically.
[00:27:51] Susan: I think so, too. The notion that you could go to work for a company, like go in the door and then come out 30 years later with a gold watch doesn't exist anymore. And so when people are giving that advice, I'm like, what are you talking about? That doesn't make sense. I know that you have just come off, gosh, a month on a cruise as a featured speaker and lecturer. What is next for you?
[00:28:16] Niamh McAnally: More of the same. I lived on the sailboat for six years which is the third part of Following Sunshine Around the Heart. And I won't give the spoiler alert as to how that came about. And now my husband and I are guest speakers on the cruise ships. And we love being back on the water. So that's more of the same of that. But the other thing is, I have another book coming out in April called Stories of Place. And back in 2020, I formed a international writers group and there was nine writers in that group.
And I really wanted to see everybody traditionally published. And so we all got together in 2023 in one location in England, because they're from Australia. The one girl was in Japan at the time, Ireland, England, America. We all got together. And we agreed to combine our very eclectic writing styles, and we put together an anthology called Stories of Place, and that's coming out in April. So that's the spring kind of load into what we'll be doing next.
[00:29:14] Susan: Excellent. I can't wait for the book. Okay, folks, before we tell Niamh goodbye, we are going to head down to the loading dock where all of the best stories get told.
Elevator voice announces, “Going down.”
[00:29:29] Susan: Niamh, what is a story you would only tell on the loading dock?
[00:29:33] Niamh McAnally: I have one experience of me being a guest at a hotel in Ireland actually, down in South West Ireland in Kerry. One of my diving groups that I was in at the time, we were all going away for the weekend and we were staying in a hotel and we had dive boats there. We were all going out diving during the daytime.
Anyway, myself and my boyfriend at the time arrived in and we went into the room and I remembered, for some reason, I remember the room number was room 17. It wasn't a very big hotel. I think they had two stories to it and went in and put down the bags. And for some reason, every time I go into a hotel room, the first thing I check out is the bathroom and I check out the shower pressure because in Ireland at the time, water pressure isn't like it is in America. It was a little bit of, it could be a trickle or it could be like, full on. So I go to check to turn on the shower. Nothing. So there's no, there's nothing. There's no water at all.
[00:30:22] Susan: Oh no!
[00:30:22] Niamh McAnally: No, nothing. And so I go down to the front desk and Irish people are generally not big complainers. We're not that direct and we'd say, Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. So I go up to the girl and I just say, I'm terribly sorry, but the shower in room 17 doesn't work. That's right, she said.
[00:30:44] Susan: Okay.
[00:30:45] Niamh McAnally: And then I was so flabbergasted, I was just looking at her and then she turns around, aren't your friends next door? Isn't the one working in there? You could use that.
[00:30:52] Susan: What? What? How is that even a thing? And I'm sure that the hotelier in you was just like, alerting all over the place.
[00:31:02] Niamh McAnally: I know, it was. This cracks me up every time I think about, oh, the shower in room 17 doesn't work. That's right. Tell me something I don't already know.
[00:31:13] Susan: That is amazing. Niamh McAnally, thank you so much for being here. I know that our listeners are lining up for Finding Sunshine, and I really appreciate you riding to the top floor.
[00:31:26] Niamh McAnally: Thank you so much. Lovely to talk with you.
[00:31:29] Susan: Thank you for listening. You can find the show notes at topfloorpodcast.com/episode/171.
[00:28:57] Susan Barry: Jonathan Albano is our editor, producer and all around genius. He even wrote and performed our theme song with vocals by Cameron Albano. You can subscribe to Top Floor on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you like to listen, and your rating or review will go a long way in helping us give you more of what you like.
[00:29:23] Narrator: Thanks for listening to the Top Floor Podcast at www.topfloorpodcast.com. Have a hospitality marketing question? Reach us at 850-404-9630 to be featured in a future episode.