Transcript: Episode 179: Bridal Suite Sweethearts

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[00:00:00] Susan Barry: This is Top Floor episode 179. You can find the show notes at topfloorpodcast.com/episode/179. 

[00:00:14] Narrator: Welcome to Top Floor with Susan Barry. This weekly podcast ride up to the top floor features tangible tips and excellent stories from the experts and characters who elevate hospitality. And now your host and elevator operator, Susan Barry.

[00:00:32] Susan Barry: Welcome to the show. James Ferguson began his career in hotels at the front desk and quickly rose through the ranks in the industry with a wide range of roles, including director of operations and general manager. James honed his passion for leadership and team development. During the pandemic, he authored the Confetti Culture Playbook, which outlines his philosophy on recognition and rewarding team contributions. James is now Director of Culture, which is the best title ever at the Wurzach Hotel Group, where he oversees employee experience. And he recently won the Culture Pioneer Award given by HR Zone. Today, we're going to talk about all things workplace culture, but before we jump in, we need to answer the call button.

Call button rings 

[00:01:32] Susan Barry: The emergency call button is our hotline for hospitality professionals who have burning questions. If you would like to submit a question, you can call or text me at 850-404-9630. Today's question was submitted by Claudia. And I think this question is so funny. James, as a confetti expert, what is the best way to clean up confetti in a hotel ballroom after a wedding or other event? I just have a feeling that you're going to have good tips for this. So what do you got?

[00:02:10] James Ferguson: That is a great question. The best way to clean up confetti in a ballroom after a wedding or any event is a shop vac. So the reason for that is because a regular vacuum is going to get clogged. Not right away, but it will eventually. So it's just good to avoid that altogether. And a broom, while it is good to sweep it up, maybe that way, shop vac allows you to get it all into one place and use that to dispose of it quickly. So that would be my recommendation. 

[00:02:42] Susan Barry: That is actually really good advice. I was kind of afraid that as a long time hotelier, you would be like put in the contract that they're not allowed to bring confetti into the ballroom and you'll be fine. So I'm glad to hear that you've actually got a really smart approach to it, which I shall remember. Can you share or talk a little bit about your journey and hospitality? You started at the front desk, you evolved into leadership roles. How did that all happen? 

[00:03:08] James Ferguson: So, I love this industry and when I was in school, I was going to school 8 to 2, at the time. And I need to find a job that had eight hours for me to work. And my dad was overseeing a renovation project of a hotel in Michigan. And he said, you know what? You're in retail now. Why don't you look at hotels? I see these people working with guests. I think you could be really good at it. I'm like, Oh, okay. I had no idea. It wasn't on my radar. Went to some hotels nearby. I had an opening, got my first gig at a Wyndham property at the front desk. And I quickly learned two things. I never really had to wear a suit consistently before. So by putting on that suit, I felt like a completely different person. I saw myself different. I believed in myself in different ways. It was just like a transformational thing.

And it seems so simple, but at that time in my life, it was like, this is exactly what I needed. Deon says, I'm a big sports guy. Deon Sanders says, when you look good, you feel good. When you feel good, you play good.And when you play good, they pay good. I took that approach and understood that that was a good way to feel. And I wanted to keep feeling that way. And then that kind of inspiration lead me to action. And I quickly learned in our industry that if you work hard, you're going to get exactly where you want to go as quickly as you want to get there. And you really control your destiny. I think that's very different from other industries, but it's the beauty of ours. And I learned that quickly and was able to catalyze. 

[00:04:39] Susan Barry: It's so interesting. Both of those points I think are 100 percent correct and I totally agree with. But the thing about the suit is so interesting to me because I, of course, now work from home. I have for a really long time and I can wear whatever I want. But especially on recording days, I always put on a real outfit. Because for some reason it makes me feel like a grownup. 

[00:05:00] James Ferguson: Yeah, well you look great today. 

[00:05:02] Susan Barry: Thanks. Thanks a lot. But the thing that has always mystified me that I've reflected on is the fact that when I was on property as a director of sales and marketing, I was the dress code police. And I wonder if it has in some way to do with my sort of internalizing that same feeling. Like if I felt well dressed that I felt like I was going to be successful or maybe I was just real bossy. It's hard to say. 

[00:05:30] James Ferguson: I think both are okay. 

[00:05:31] Susan Barry: Okay. So you were a very young general manager. How did doing that at the sort of early side on your career shape your leadership philosophy? 

[00:05:47] James Ferguson: That's a great question. I think being a young GM in a place that was a very lean team, operated very lean, help shaping a lot of ways. But I think one of the things I wanted to share from my journey, so when I first became a GM, it was at a Day's hotel. For those who don't know, that's typically like a two star property. So not a high level of service, but a high level of expectations when you have like four people doing everything right? And even to this day, I don't put that I was a GM of that hotel on my resume because I don't feel like I deserve it. 

And I think going back to what I said a moment ago, our industry allows you to create the path you want and get there as quickly as you want. In that moment, yes, I was a GM and many people would take that and run with it the rest of their career. But I knew that although I was learning things fast and by fire, I wasn't good at it. I wasn't learning the right ways and I didn't have the right habits. And so for that reason, on my resume, I put AGM now. And again, the reason for that is was I just wasn't a good GM and I didn't want to continue to be a bad GM. I wanted to take what I learned from that experience, take a step back at a higher level service location and then grow in the way that I thought was best long term. 

[00:07:08] Susan Barry: Interesting. I don't know that there are a lot of people in our industry who would a be willing to admit that and be be willing to do that. So kudos, confetti to you, James. 

[00:07:19] James Ferguson: Yeah, there we go. 

[00:07:20] Susan Barry: Speaking of which, what inspired you to write the confetti culture playbook? 

[00:07:25] James Ferguson: Well, when I started in the industry, I started to really get focused on reading books so that I could become a better leader. And like I said, as a young GM, when you're learning on the fly and maybe not learning the right way, you gotta pull mentors from the pages of books. So I was reading a lot. And as I was reading, I was like, I would love to write a book one day. And in 2016, when I was laid off from a job, I tried to write a book and I just didn't have enough experience under my belt to do so. So what I did instead was I wrote myself a playbook so that when I got the next gig, I was set for success to go be the best leader I could be. 

Then fast forward to the pandemic. Again, I had time on my hands. So I, from there, you know, that was a couple of years later, I felt like I had enough to share that could add value to others and help people coming up in the industry to skip a couple of steps and kind of share my journey as to how I won top workplaces. So, I was just about to have another child and it was like, I'm not going to get this time again. So this is my moment. And it was a really rewarding journey to go on and to say that I was some sort of professional writer prior, I would be lying to you. But I think like anything, if you create the right structure and follow it and follow through, you can do anything you want 

[00:08:43] Susan Barry: So say a little bit more about that, because I think so many of us had grand plans to become fluent in French, Susan Barry, and many other projects during the pandemic that may or may not have panned out. How did you hold yourself accountable? 

[00:08:58] James Ferguson: That's a great question. The way that I held myself accountable was using the time I had. So I did have my now my oldest daughter born and taking care of her. So every time she took a nap, those two hours was my time to write. So I didn't try to do all of it at once while I started that way, that was rough. But once I got that down, that time was allotted every day for that. And because I couldn't go anywhere, it was very easy to not get distracted. And so I used that time specifically, took bites of it each day and then it built over time and became the book you see today.

[00:09:33] Susan Barry: Was there a lot of overlap between the playbook that you wrote for yourself and what ultimately became your public facing book? Or was your playbook more like how you got smart enough to write the real book? You know what I mean? 

[00:09:48] James Ferguson: Yeah, I think, I think it definitely was the foundation to it. And then when I wrote it for myself and took on that next role, I was able to apply to practice to see what worked, what didn't, and then saw the results of those actions and then created the playbook, or my book based on those experiences and how to really do the best versions of those things. So I think, everything happens for a reason. And me setting that playbook for myself set the tone for the one for everyone else. And, you don't see that in the moment, but with hindsight, it definitely was how it all came about. 

[00:10:23] Susan Barry: So you have one of the coolest sounding jobs in the industry. Your title is Director of Culture. What does that mean? Like, what does a typical week of work look like for you? And how does it maybe differ from traditional HR or OPs roles in hotels? 

[00:10:45] James Ferguson: So the easiest way to describe it to you, my role as Director of Culture is the front of the house versus the back of the house of the department. So as a Director of Culture, I'm the front of the house of HR, where we have someone next to me, it's the partner on the compliance side. So I'm culture, their compliance, and I focus on everything from, I basically assess, create, sustain a thriving culture through everything we do from internal marketing to communications to content creation to process improvement to engagement programs.

The list is very broad, and it's obviously expanded over time as we've built this thing out. But one thing I want to share, is that this role is not in existence prior. And the reason I want to share that has nothing to do with me, but everyone listening should hear this, which is if you want to get to a different place in your career, you have to set yourself up for success by asking the questions and sharing your beliefs and hopes for the future. No one's going to show up for you like you're going to show up for you. And so in the same capacity as I'm sharing there, I went to my boss and said, Hey, I don't want to go this traditional way. I'd like to go this way. It doesn't exist. And I know this time doesn't feel like it, but this is actually the exact right time to do it. And you know, the rest is history. 

[00:12:06] Susan Barry: And so they're just like, okay, no problem. Or did you have to do some spreadsheets? 

[00:12:12] James Ferguson: I mean, the beauty of my book and the experience and me sharing my story so often, it became very clear that there's results and there's a passion and a purpose there that not everybody has. And so everything else can kind of get figured out. If you got that right attitude, you'll get yourself there. And so that's kind of the way they approached it and we approached it. And again, it's built over time. Hopefully that inspires somebody to go have a conversation. 

[00:12:40] Susan Barry: Well, it's like if I ever were to go work for somebody, I have one title that I would accept. And that is Chief Content Officer. Otherwise forget it. Not a chance that I'm coming back to work. 

[00:12:52] James Ferguson: But that's good, right? You need to know what your lane is and settle for nothing less. 

[00:12:56] Susan Barry: Exactly. So you talked a little bit about results, but can you get into more specifics about that? Are the business results that you have to measure in your position sort of similar to human resources, talent management type metrics? Or are there other things that you're optimizing for? 

[00:13:18] James Ferguson: Yeah. So, first and foremost, we'd look at Glassdoor is a huge thing. We want to hear from the employees and get the temperature of the team. And that is an unsolicited way to get the feedback, right? Of course we do surveys and everything else. But that is going to be our truth. And one of the beauties of my time in this role that we've been able to witness is we started at two, two. On Glassdoor as a company, we are now at four, three, which is the highest we've ever been. 

[00:13:44] Susan Barry: Wow.

[00:13:45] James Ferguson: And to be clear, it's not like we just went, like it was ebbs and flows. Right? And I think, again, that's a testament to the work we're doing and the impact we've had through the initiatives and things that we've rolled out, but we really did go from worst to first. And so, that's a big ticket item, right? But there's other things like turnover rate and apply to higher rate. 

So one of the things that we've done, and you know this from content creation, we have been focusing a lot about sharing our story. People are going to share our story for us. So if we don't share it, how it really is happening in real time, then we're just going to lean and hope that people are sharing the good parts. And we do a lot of great things in this company. And so we've worked really hard to share those. And through that, a lot of people have took notice. A lot of people have gained interest. And just to give you an example, I was looking at this the other day, for year end stuff in 2022, we had 17,000 people apply to the company in 2024, we had 49,000.

[00:14:44] Susan Barry: Yikes. That's a huge jump! 

[00:14:48] James Ferguson: Huge, I think I said 17,000, hopefully I did, but either way, the jump is massive. And so that is a clear indication of the work that we're doing and kind of all facets is, is working. And again, we have our surveys, we have things that we do measure. I also measure engagement, which is a huge piece of a bunch of programs to make sure our team members are engaged as well as our leaders. That kind of gives you a general scope of what I'm paying attention to. 

[00:15:13] Susan Barry: Awesome. So I know you are a huge recognition and reward advocate. Can you talk about the role that those things play in building the culture? Because I think we all know that like compensation is important for culture, workplace environment, like having the tools you need and all that stuff. But how does recognition and reward play a role there? 

[00:15:40] James Ferguson: That's a great question. Recognition reward is top three or five reasons why people leave a company, or the lack thereof. Right? And the thing about recognition and reward is it's at little to no cost and it takes little to no effort. And yet it's one of the biggest obstacles every company has. And so, it's really just about creating consistency and how you do that. And you can do that in a lot of ways. You can do it through, I would always do it through daily huddle. That's the one point where I would connect with my team every day. Having the element of celebration in that, in whatever capacity I wanted was going to help drive people to continue that behavior. 

Doing walkabouts daily, not just in huddle, but walk around the property and actively seeking the good and celebrating it. That's going to be a big factor. And then creating engagement programs that again, identify a pain point, figure out your desired outcome, and then reward the behavior you want to continue to see. Those kinds of three things are how you let those things perform for you. But almost everything I just said costs me no money. And if anything, it's maybe $20 a week. And those are the things that really help drive performance, which to your point, there's a big difference between satisfaction and engagement. And I think that's sometimes something that people get confused about when it comes to company culture.

[00:17:03] Susan Barry: I'm gonna be a little devil's advocate-y or contrary for a second just because I'm interested in your take on this. So there are so often people come out and say things like, employees don't really care how much they make. They care how much you care about them. And I think that they care how much you care about them. And your point on recognition and rewards important, but I think the idea that you can like pizza party your way into a good company culture is a little bit tone deaf, but I could be wrong because I am not an expert on this, right? Like I'm just an armchair expert. So what do you think? 

[00:17:44] James Ferguson: You're definitely correct. Yeah. I think I even share this in my book. I remember seeing a meme that was the, I don't remember what the company is, but it's the guy that like puts the black tape on the boat that has a hole in it. And so the water doesn't get in. And it was saying like, when you get a pizza party for your team, this solves your culture. It's like, no, it doesn't. So you're right. That's kind of goes back to that satisfaction versus engagement. Satisfaction is a feeling, engagement is an action. And so if you want to drive performance and productivity, you have to have engagement elements to your culture. If you just focus on satisfaction, which is their salary, their benefits, the elements to the break room, whatever, those things are short term.

The long term is how you make them feel, how they feel part of the purpose of your company and how they're impacting that every day. And again, that's the difference between satisfaction and engagement. And again, satisfaction costs a lot of money. Engagement does not. Engagement drives your company forward. Satisfaction does not. So that's where like people are like, I'm going to buy these things and we're going to get better benefits, all these things. It's like, yes, that is good. You need that. That's the base level. But engagement is what's going to change the trajectory of your company. 

[00:18:59] Susan Barry: But you can't achieve engagement without satisfaction. Like if you are building engagement on a platform. 

[00:19:05] James Ferguson: It's absolutely a base, so you have to have. 

[00:19:07] Susan Barry: Okay 

[00:19:07] James Ferguson: Yes, a hundred percent. 

[00:19:08] Susan Barry: Good, good, good. 

[00:19:09] James Ferguson: That's a lot of times we focus on just the one it's like, well, why aren't we seeing the outcomes? Well, cause you gave them the base level, that's the expectation. It's not, you're not exceeding anybody's expectations by paying them a competitive wage, right?

[00:19:23] Susan Barry: We like to make sure that our listeners come away from every single episode of Top Floor with some practical and tangible tips to try. So James, what advice do you have for companies that are looking to improve their organizational culture besides reading your book? Obviously. 

[00:19:41] James Ferguson: Yeah. I think just coming up with processes that make it easy to have the commitment and consistency you want to see? I just mentioned a moment ago, engagement initiatives are so huge because it allows you to say, okay, what do we want to improve? Is it TripAdvisor? Is it minutes per room? Is it sales? Goals? Is it attendance and creating incentives that drive that forward? And when you create a clear line of sight, a purpose, people walk in and have something to look forward to. When they don't they're going to show up do the job, leave, show up to the job, leave. 

And so you have to create those programs and what's interesting is a lot of people believe that if you do that you're just paying someone extra to do what they're supposed to do. But research shows us that you still have to create those initiatives to drive those things forward. And so anybody that's looking to drive their culture forward, start with engagement, that's going to create a more positive, productive, and profitable team. And it will absolutely change the game for you. 

[00:20:42] Susan Barry: Do you mention that it's not super expensive? Do you have any simple cost effective things that you do to celebrate team success? And I'm talking like, what are the specifics like rubber ducks or whatever? 

[00:20:58] James Ferguson: I'll give you a couple examples. So as a company Warsack, we have this program called Warsack Wow. And it was kind of part of our process of building out our brand and our processes. And it's been one of the most impactful things that we've done. Simply put. When you see someone living out one of our brand pillars, you recognize them, share what caught your eye and why, and give them a wow card, which they drop in the box and every Friday or Fri-yay, randomly and celebrate them for it.

So that helps us create a connection between who we are as a company and a brand and what they do every day. And that's been a huge piece for us, but putting my GM hat on, other things that I've done like for attendance is I would, you know, there's a song from Ashanti that says, that's always on time. And I took that relatable song and created a wall in my break room. That was the Ashanti Always On Time Wall of Fame. And so anybody that reached 90 percent or above in attendance would be on that wall. They'd get a little wristband that said perfect attendance. And then I would give them a $10 gift card while playing the music.

[00:22:02] Susan Barry: Nice. 

[00:22:02] James Ferguson: So it was like this fun thing that connected, and understanding that we need to improve, but made it in a way that was fun and relatable. And that's why I always say put the fun back in fundamentals, because that is the way to get people to buy in and quickly get in gear where you want them to. So, those are two kinds of examples, both from a company wide and the GM specific angle that can support your listeners. 

[00:22:26] Susan Barry: Those are awesome. So on the flip side of that, what mistakes do companies or even single hotels make when they're trying to improve workplace culture? How can they avoid mistakes? 

[00:22:41] James Ferguson: I think, again, it goes back to satisfaction versus engagement. Putting some new paint on the break room wall, putting up a TV, giving a snack machine. Those are things that are good, right? I've done those things everywhere I've gone. They are important, but they are the base level expectation. They're not going to keep people coming back and wanting to perform at a high level. And again, those all cost a lot of money. So companies wind up spending more money than they need to.

Go on things that are satisfactory, which is very transactional instead of on things that are engagement driven, which is transformational. And so my recommendation for anyone listening is to still do the satisfaction elements, but put way more energy and effort into finding the solutions through engagement. That again will drive you to be a more positive, productive and profitable team. 

[00:23:34] Susan Barry: I really love that distinction that you make between satisfaction and engagement. I think that's so smart and I don't think people think about it enough, so I appreciate it. Well, we have reached the fortune telling portion of the show, so you have to predict the future and then we will call you out if you get it wrong. No, I'm just kidding. What is a prediction that you have about the future of workplace culture in hospitality? 

[00:23:59] James Ferguson: I mean, I think we're already seeing it, but it's going to be abundantly clear in the next few years that your culture is your competitive edge. Again, culture does not mean your pretty colors on the wall and posters. It means the way you make people feel every day. And that's again, through purpose and engagement. And so we're already seeing it here, right? We have over the last two years, we've rebranded. We've done so many things with my role in this focus that people will, I'll give you an example. We had somebody come in the office that was like a rep for a company and they saw me and they were like, you're the guy that does the W and I'm like, what?

But even a GM, we just hired, he was interviewing two weeks ago, and he came in and was like, Hey man, I love what you're doing here. And he threw up the W and it's like, this is amazing that the things we're doing internally and sharing externally are creating that interest and engagement with us as a company that we hadn't seen before. Again, I think that's what the key is as we move forward over the next few years is putting that energy in this area. It's going to help you create that competitive edge against other companies that may be not putting it in that area. 

[00:25:07] Susan Barry: Okay, so if you could wave your magic wand and change one thing about how companies or organizations approach the employee experience, what would it be? I have mine, by the way, I'm going to see if you say what I would say. 

[00:25:22] James Ferguson: A customer will not love a company until the employees do first. And in our industry, we focus about guests all the time. That's heads and beds, making sure we're serving them, but you have to remember to start where it all starts, which is our team, you know? So if you take care of them, they're going to take care of the guests. And I think we all can do a better job of that. And it doesn't mean that we do less than for one side or the other. I think we just need to have a better balance. And I am seeing a shift across companies, especially larger companies. I think for us at Warsack, we are a small company that are doing it first in our size. But I think there's a huge opportunity to balance that better as an industry. 

[00:26:06] Susan Barry: Okay. Yours is, was so deep and moving. Mine is like really practical. Which is that I wish that companies would make the hiring process more efficient and faster then reentering the resume information that you've just uploaded. The four, six, eight, ten week lag time between the beginning and the end of the process is just the absolute way to start off on the wrong foot in my humble opinion.

[00:26:38] James Ferguson: Yeah, that's very accurate. And I think that's something that a lot of companies, including ours, are trying to find ways to be more efficient in for sure. So that's very accurate. 

[00:26:45] Susan Barry: What is next for you? And what's next for your company? 

[00:26:49] James Ferguson: Well, for the company, we just won Culture Pioneer through HR zone, which we're super excited and grateful for. And I think the next step for us as a company is to work towards winning top workplaces. So that's we're kind of looking at and saying, okay, what are the things we do now or aren't doing, and how do we adjust and implement to make sure that we can be at that caliber of a company? So we're excited for that.

And then, for me personally, I just actually updated my workbook. So my book, The Confetti Culture Playbook, is the inspiration, but my workbook is the implementation. So if you're looking to get inspired and grab my book. If you're looking to go get into it and take action to gain traction, grab my workbook because I just updated that with some really good tools specifically for engagement.

[00:27:32] Susan Barry: Awesome. I'm gonna put a link to that in the show notes so everybody can grab it. Okay, folks before we tell James goodbye, we are going to head down to the loading dock where all of the best stories get told.

Elevator voice announces, “Going down.”

[00:27:49] Susan Barry: James, what is a story you would only tell on the loading dock? 

[00:27:54] James Ferguson: All right, so I will share this. It's a little dicey. So in my first role at the front desk, I was a PM desk agent. And this was probably like in my second month of being in the industry. So like, I was still green, didn't know what to expect.

[00:28:10] Susan Barry: But wearing your suit. 

[00:28:11] James Ferguson: Yes. So I felt good, and I was serving our guests left and right. But when you're in the PM, you also kind of observe the festivities and there was a wedding in house. And during that wedding, the group kept going back and forth to the like bridal suite and you could just see them, it was right off the front desk. So it was like, we had clear sight of this happening. And it was more than I had seen in other ones prior. But anyway, fast forward to later that evening, we found out and realized through some loud banging and screaming that the groom's mother was in there, locked door, with the best man. And the father realized that they were missing, went to go check on her, realized what was transpiring and tried to break the door down. Now again, this is right off the front desk. 

[00:29:10] Susan Barry: Wait, wait, wait. Just so that we're clear, the mother of the groom and the best man were having a private moment in the bridal suite. 

[00:29:22] James Ferguson: Correct. 

[00:29:23] Susan Barry: O.M.G. 

[00:29:26] James Ferguson: Yeah, so that was. And again, like it was right, like right around the corner from the front desk. So it's not like it was on the third floor. We couldn't see it or hear it. Like this was going down security was running over. He was breaking the door off the hinges. This was like a really serious moment. And I'm just like, wow, this really happens. Like I had never seen something like this. So I'm like, yeah, usually you hear about or see it on a TV show. And I'm like, wow, is this what the industry is about? Not only do I love serving guests, but now I'm entertained. Like, can't be this. So, it was quite an adventure and again, set the tone for kind of what to expect in the industry. And, you know, I think we all have a lot of stories to share, but that was probably the most eye opening and interesting one. 

[00:30:08] Susan Barry: Holy guacamole, James Ferguson. Thank you so much for being here. I know that our listeners are lining up to get your book if they haven't already read it. And I really appreciate you riding to the top floor. 

[00:30:22] James Ferguson: Thank you, Susan. Appreciate you. 

[00:30:25] Susan Barry: Thank you for listening. You can find the show notes at topfloorpodcast.com/episode/179. Jonathan Albano is our editor, producer, and all around genius. He even wrote and performed our theme song with vocals by Cameron Albano. You can subscribe to Top Floor on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you like to listen. And your rating or review will go a long way in helping us give you more of what you like.

[00:41:45] Narrator: Thanks for listening to the Top Floor Podcast at www.topfloorpodcast.com. Have a hospitality marketing question? Reach us at 850-404-9630 to be featured in a future episode.