Transcript: Episode 181: Smoky Light Pole
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[00:00:00] Susan Barry: This is Top Floor episode 181. You can find the show notes at topfloorpodcast.com/episode/181.
[00:00:14] Narrator: Welcome to Top Floor with Susan Barry. This weekly podcast ride up to the top floor features tangible tips and excellent stories from the experts and characters who elevate hospitality. And now your host and elevator operator, Susan Barry.
[00:00:32] Susan Barry: Welcome to the show. Tommy Beyer has spent 20 years in the hospitality industry, starting from the ground up as a valet and bellman at a boutique resort in Charleston, South Carolina. With a degree in hotel management from the University of South Carolina, he worked his way through the ranks into corporate leadership roles, including financial analysis, operations, and business development. After spending 16 years with Newport Hospitality, Tommy took a leap and co founded a private real estate investment trust while also launching his own asset management consulting firm. Now he helps hotel owners optimize their investments. And today we are going to talk about the financial future of hospitality. But before we jump in, we need to answer the call button.
Call button rings
The emergency call button is our hotline for hospitality professionals who have burning questions. If you would like to submit a question, you can call or text me at 850 404 9630. Today's question was submitted by Ralph. Ralph asks, What is more important for a successful hotel, minimizing expenses or maximizing revenue? You can't say both, Tommy. What would you pick of those two?
[00:02:04] Tommy Beyer: Hmm. Susan, I don't like this question, but it's a good one though, but I'm going to say maximizing revenue because generally speaking, that should flow through better and and there's the old adage of you can't save your way to prosperity, right? So there's only so many expenses you can cut, right? There's only so much revenue you could bring in I assume.
[00:02:30] Susan Barry: Well you can continue to wait, raise your prices forever and ever. I think you're right. And I think part of this has to do, this is sort of how I approach my personal finances. Maybe now you're going to think I'm a lunatic, but if you cut to the bone and get rid of every possible thing, you have nowhere else to go. So I feel like you should always have a little buffer zone of something that you could cut later if you absolutely needed to. I don't know. Is that crazy?
[00:03:00] Tommy Beyer: It's not crazy. Also, there's a guest experience impact, right? I mean, the more you cut out of there, the more the guests are at some point, the guests are going to feel it and they're not going to come back. So it's going to ultimately impact your revenues as well.
[00:03:14] Susan Barry: I think that's absolutely true. All right, Ralph, you've got your answer, maximizing revenue. So I'm guessing you didn't learn that as a valet and bellman, but what did you learn as a valet and bellman that sort of shapes the way that you approach hospitality today?
[00:03:32] Tommy Beyer: I learned how to properly give good service to guests, right? It was my first foray into the industry. And since it was a couple of things, one, it was a tip position, right? So the better service I gave, the more money I make generally speaking, right? Except for some of those, my favorite guest, who didn't tip. So it was sort of like the better you did, the better and more money you made. So I liked that reward system. Also it was a four diamond property. So we were always sort of on the lookout for AAA or whoever was coming by to do the ratings. And I wanted to work my way up in the industry. So it was important to me to perform at a high level. I also learned what it's like to work in sort of the line level roles, right? I learned that there's going to be hard days. There's going to be tough days. There's going to be great days, but I can remember I had to run about a quarter of a mile to the parking lot each time. So, I also learned I couldn't be a valet until I'm 60 years old. It was a job for older folks.
[00:04:42] Susan Barry: That makes sense. So I wonder if it makes you more empathetic. Like a trend I've seen in asset management is it used to be that asset managers were a hundred percent finance people. And I think we're seeing a trend of many more operational people, or at least people with OPs experience going into asset management. And I wonder if it makes you more empathetic or less empathetic because you're like, I know what you're doing. You're sitting in a luggage storage room hiding.
[00:05:13] Tommy Beyer: I'd say it depends on what situation I'm dealing with right? You know, there's owners that I think can be unrealistic at times. And I can explain that to them and say, look, I've been there. I know what's going on. You need to kind of give a little bit of grace here. But then on the flip side, to your point, if I know people are just underperforming, whether that's a GM or a line level or whatever, I don't have a whole lot of patience for that. I'm more likely to say. Look, you've had your opportunity. We're gonna move on and find somebody else. But I also have to keep in mind, not everybody is going to be award winning general manager, so on and so forth. So, and this industry was impacted by COVID much like any was, but this one specifically was, and the workforce kind of got wiped out. So we had to start fresh with a lot of new people who are new to the business. So I'm a little sensitive to that as well.
[00:06:05] Susan Barry: That makes a lot of sense. A lot of hoteliers see Las Vegas as one of those like very big deal markets that you want on your resume as you're doing your hotel tour of duty. But I know you turned down an opportunity to work there. Why?
[00:06:24] Tommy Beyer: Yes, I was graduating college and I'm going to date myself a little bit, but it was back in 08. And I had the opportunity to fly out and work for interview for the Venetian. And it was definitely a childhood dream/industry dream of mine to work in Vegas, but I was also getting married, I'll call it six months later. So I had friends who were already working in Vegas and management training roles and I was talking to them and they're like, yeah, we're working 14, 16 plus hour days. And I sort of put two and two together and said, could I do it? I think so. I felt confident that I, work my way up out there, but I also knew it was a bad combination to get married and work in one of those types of roles. I passed on my Vegas dreams and then next year the GFC hit and they laid off a thousand people. So I feel like it was a good move.
[00:07:23] Susan Barry: You saved yourself.
[00:07:25] Tommy Beyer: Yeah.
[00:07:26] Susan Barry: So what led to you then making the leap into starting your own consulting firm and the private REIT?
[00:07:34] Tommy Beyer: Yeah. I think it was just a matter of, I'd been on the operational/management side of the business for so long that I was ready to see things sort of from an owner's lens and put those, and kind of move to the other side of the table. It was good timing because a client slash friend of mine was starting a private REIT. So sort of partnered up on that. And I felt like good timing from an industry standpoint where we were with the cycle. So hotels were coming up on being more affordable than they were in the past. So I liked that idea. And then as far as the consulting/asset management goes. That was a pretty natural move. I had already had clients or friends in the industry who were interested in me helping them. Like I said, it was sort of a more natural progression into that.
[00:08:27] Susan Barry: A private REIT operates really differently than the public ones our listeners may have heard of, like Pebble Brook or Apple REIT. Can you explain what a private REIT is and maybe the advantages, disadvantages of that versus something that's public?
[00:08:45] Tommy Beyer: Sure. It's a good question. Again, keep in mind public REITs. You can go on any, you can go in the stock market and whoever you’re company of choices, whether it be E Trade or whoever, Schwab, and you can go buy shares in, as you say, Pebble Brook, Apple, whoever. And they'll pay you dividends. Usually you'll get monthly dividends as, you know, call it 6%, 8%, 4%, whatever it is. And that's nice. And maybe there's some ancillary benefits, some of those, some of the shareholders get discounted room rates and stuff like that at the hotels that are owned by the REIT. But that's about, and maybe you'll get some benefits of the stock moving up, hopefully, and that kind of thing. But that's kind of where it ends with a public rate. As far as a private rates concerned, there could be tax advantages of that, which is why a lot of people are pretty interested in private rates, right? So you can invest through, you know, IRAs or whatever the case is. Keeping in mind, I'm not a CPA. I'm not a financial professional.
[00:09:51] Susan Barry: Just from a lay person's perspective, what does it mean?
[00:09:55] Tommy Beyer: Yeah, so you can save yourself on some on taxes investing in a private rate, right? Depending on what level you invest in that type of thing. Also, there's a lot of different things that can happen with private rates. The private rates can decide that they're going to increase their share price, right? The board of directors get together, they're going to increase the share price, right? Or they, the read has grown large enough where they're going to go public now, right? So a lot of the, okay, a public reach started off as private rates, right? And then if you were part of the initial investor pool on the private side, and they went public, that could be pretty meaningful for you in terms of financial gains once it goes public. And then the other side of it is, some private REITs are a little bit more nimble or a little more focused on value add deals or thinking a little bit more outside of the box where the public, some of the public REITs are more focused on your traditional, call it less risky deals, that kind of thing. There's a bunch of other differences, but I'd say those are sort of the main differences.
[00:11:09] Susan Barry: Got it. So we talked about this a little bit earlier, but expense creep is outpacing revenue growth in many hotels right now. It's a topic that keeps coming up at conferences and in conversations. What do you think is driving that imbalance and what, if anything, can be done to fix it?
[00:11:29] Tommy Beyer: Yeah, so I mean, obviously inflation is putting pressure on wages, right? So you have wage creep, wage growth in a lot of markets. And there was always in it, in an imbalance in wages in the hospitality industry versus competing industries. And I think that really, I know that really got exposed call it again during COVID, right? Because you sort of had to start paying people more. I mean, if we go back to 2019, we were paying housekeepers $8, $9 an hour, and now you're paying housekeepers $16, $17, $18 an hour. And you're having to compete with the likes of Amazon and these other retailers out there who are paying better wages and have a more competitive benefits package.
[00:12:18] Susan Barry: Well, and during the pandemic also didn't require you be exposed to a potential health risk, which I think is how it sort of came to a head now.
[00:12:27] Tommy Beyer: Sure. Yeah, for sure. And if you think about housekeeping, obviously being the biggest department in our industry. I mean, there was no rooms to clean. Right? So those folks had to go get other jobs somewhere else. So I think there's obviously wage pressure and then there's inflationary pressure on the goods you're buying, whether that's linen or breakfast food or anything, right? So anything that hotels buying today versus two years ago, three years ago, five years ago, it was much more expensive. And we're just not able to charge enough in most markets to keep up with that. Now, who knows what's going to happen with inflation moving forward or the cost of eggs going down. I don't know, hopefully. So in terms of like, what can be done about the imbalance? And I think you have to continue to find unique ways, as we said to Ralph's question earlier, to drive more revenue in different ways. I know we'll talk about that in the future here, and find unique opportunities to save on expense items, right? Maybe there's line items that you've never really thought of before. You've just sort of glanced past them and live with them and you really need to start digging into those, right? That's our job as asset managers and owners to say, is this right? Should we be paying this much for trash service or whatever the line item is elevator service, right?
[00:13:52] Susan Barry: So I guess that makes me wonder then if you take a big step back from the PNL of an individual hotel and look at the sort of broad strokes across the industry, is the business model of the hotel industry still viable? If we can't charge enough to cover the increase in expenses, and there's very little chance that those expenses are going to suddenly reduce. Does this business even make sense? I mean, obviously we have to have hotels. I don't mean that, but is there a shake up to the business model that needs to happen? Like what changes could be made to improve things?
[00:14:36] Tommy Beyer: I think it's still a viable model, right? I mean, ultimately you're buying real estate, right? So you have to be, in my mind, you have to be even more particular and cautious about where you're buying and what you're buying, right? So we know the brands are going to continue to create more brands, right? That seems to be inevitable. So you have to be sure that where you're buying is going to be more expensive in the future and the cost to develop a hotel there is going to be more expensive or maybe impossible. So, therefore, your hotel should be more valuable down the line. What can be done to improve it? That's a question we can go on and on for hours about. But I think there are some changes vis-a-vis technology and things like that maybe we could talk about that could tie into it. I think it's going to change for sure in the future and it's going to be interesting to see.
[00:15:40] Susan Barry: When you say the part about real estate, obviously hotels are a real estate business, but they're also a cash flowing business. Does it get to the point where hotel owners and investors have to stop relying on the cash flow and just rely on asset value upon exit? Do you know what I mean?
[00:16:01] Tommy Beyer: It's obviously deal by deal specific. I mean you need a good mixture of both. That's one of the nice things about being in a REIT or a fund, is that you're gonna have some hotels that are gonna just spin off cash flow and they're not gonna have a lot of appreciation on the back end. And then there's some hotels that just aren't going to cash flow that well, but that again, where they are and what they are is going to be worth a lot down the line. So ultimately I'd sort of prefer a deal with better cash flow, right? Just because I just feel more confident in the operation.
[00:16:38] Susan Barry: We like to make sure that our listeners come away from every single episode of Top Floor with some practical and tangible tips, either for their businesses or their lives. Tommy, what is an example of the unconventional revenue stream that you alluded to earlier that could potentially make a big difference for a hotel?
[00:16:59] Tommy Beyer: I can't share all my secrets.
[00:17:01] Susan Barry: Why are you here? You gotta give some tips, man.
[00:17:06] Tommy Beyer: Yeah, I'd say I try to focus initially, as I'm engaging on a deal is, what are some ROI items that you really haven't thought about, right? Return on investment, right? So often I find owners sort of had these blinders on or they haven't thought through different ways to generate revenue. And I'll give you an example. I was working with an owner a number of years ago who they had a hotel on the ocean and they weren't charging for parking and they had a big parking lot, right? They had more parking spaces than they needed and they were afraid because nobody else was charging for parking and they were like, well, the brand is going to give us a hard time about it. And they shouldn't. If you charge 10 a day and you capture 50%, right, you're going to generate something like $800,000 in top line revenue without any meaningful expense addition.
So you know, think about the value that's going to add to your property. So after about a year of arm wrestling back and forth with them and the brand, they started charging and what happened? The next hotel charted started charging and the next one and the next one. Right? So it just seems so obvious, but they had owned the hotel for, I don't know, four or five years. And the hotel had been there for like 30 years and nobody had ever started charging for parking. And it's like, guys, come on, you've got to do this. So I think sometimes it's a little more obvious. Sometimes it's a little nuanced. Right? In that same property, we started charging for bike rentals and things like that and you might say, well, that's great. My hotel is not on the beach. Like, what can I do?
I'm working with some properties that are driven heavily by contract business because they have extended stay and the people work overnight and oil and gas fields and things like that. And there's not any food and beverage for miles around. So I'm saying to the people, why don't you make to-go breakfast sandwiches and sell them to them? Why don't you make lunch box lunches, sell those to them. And again, this may not drive super high levels of revenue to the property, but incremental revenue is going to flow down and everything is helpful, especially when we're talking about. That's the time we're in, in the cycle where we just said revenue is not keeping up with expense growth. So we have to really say, okay, what else can we do to earn money at this property?
[00:19:35] Susan Barry: And that would also contribute to guest satisfaction, right? Like if all of a sudden you have more options for things to eat, I mean, there is nothing more rage inducing than checking into a hotel and finding out the restaurant's closed and you can't get any food, you know?
[00:19:49] Tommy Beyer: Yeah. Yeah. You're right. I mean, and again, there are people are used to DoorDash and things like that now. So you know why not offer it at your hotel?
[00:19:57] Susan Barry: That makes sense. It also sounds like maybe just the idea of questioning your assumptions in your operation, like things that you've always done a certain way or never done before. Maybe put it all on the table and see which ones are worth giving a try.
[00:20:12] Tommy Beyer: And nothing says you have to continue to do that. And if that one hotel started charging for 20% occupancy, well, maybe we shouldn't do that.
[00:20:21] Susan Barry: Roll that back, Fred. What about on the other side of that? What about cost cutting? Is there a cost cutting strategy that most hotels ignore but could make an impact for them?
[00:20:33] Tommy Beyer: Yeah, there's all kinds of different ways to do that. I mean, one of the simplest ways, which I see a lot of owners sort of look past, are engaging with certain vendors who will drive savings on telecom utilities and all those different line items, right? So there are vendors out there who are really good at doing that. They've got agreements with all these utilities and telecom providers, and they won't charge you for that. They'll go and charge the provider for whatever they save you. But I've seen hotels save thousands of dollars per month on gas, because they just weren't locked into the right pricing and that's meaningful money.
But again, it's another one of those line items that they just overlooked, right? And some people say, well, we've already done that. Well, have you had somebody come out and do a water survey at the property and see if there's anything you can do to save on water? Right? I mean, there's, it's another one of those layers where you have to say, okay, can I save money here? What does it look like if we go back to telecom? I mean, usually I can come in and find you, I could probably increase your internet speed by two or three X and save you hundreds, if not thousands of dollars per month because the cost of that stuff is getting cheaper. Right? Which is one area where it's nice that technology is saving us some money in that area.
[00:21:54] Susan Barry: So speaking of that, I think hoteliers often think about automation technology, AI, as 100% cost saving moves. Like that's why they exist, to save money. Do you think that's accurate? How do you see all of that stuff fitting into the hotel operation, I clearly have my opinion, which is why I'm teeing this up.
[00:22:17] Tommy Beyer: All right. Well, I don't know if it's, we're living in iRobot times just yet, but I do think there are ways to see AI and technology drive some meaningful savings. One sort of tangible example is, I'm working with a company now who’s providing, let's call them Roombas, but on a larger scale, commercial size Roombas to properties and it's for your public space, right? So you drop off this Roomba off of the elevator and it goes and cleans all the carpet on your corridors because we look, we tell the housekeepers, once you finish vacuuming the room, go vacuum outside a little bit. And before you know it, we will vacuum the whole hall or the houseman doesn't want to do it or whatever.
It's a battle you have to fight from an operational perspective. But this robot goes and does it and you lease it for $400 a month. So in terms of price per hour, it's like a dollar per hour that you're paying for this, which I can't pay anybody a dollar per hour to do that. Right? Or it goes and cleans the meeting space. Right? I mean, think about it. That I think is a tangible example of something where like, you know what, that could work. I think we can save money there. Some people are using AI to respond to guest reviews. I think that's a good way to see some savings or, but I don't know if it's savings, but it helps people who aren't good at that craft being a better messaging let's say.
[00:23:48] Susan Barry: Yeah, it makes it get done more quickly too. I just think we always forget about the cost of compute when it comes to AI. Like there is a huge cost outside of the building. Obviously, when you’re subscribing to something like chat GPT, you're paying your little bit to cover the cost of that compute, but it just shifts the cost elsewhere. Like it doesn't magically disappear. I don't know. I could probably do an entire show about those sort of misconceptions, but that would also probably put everyone, including you to sleep. So we will move right on. We have reached the fortune telling portion of our show. So now we are going to predict the future and come back later and see if we were right. What is a prediction that you have about the future of hotel labor costs?
[00:24:35] Tommy Beyer: I think it goes back a little bit to what we just talked about, right? I mean, if I don't have to have a houseman because somebody is vacuuming, some robot’s vacuuming my floors and taking out my trash. Well, that's going to save me money. And I think that's a real possibility. Or if I, if you go back a number of years, I think Hilton was the first one to roll it out on a large scale basis, but digital key, right? You can go check into your hotel with your phone. I think more and more and more hotels are going to be adopting that. And I think they already are, but with that, you should be able to reduce the number of hours that you need on the front desk. I don't know if it ever goes to zero or if you can ever cut a complete shift out, let's say. But so many people don't want to check in, right? They just want to go into their room with their key and most people don't go check out anyways, right? So I think that'll help save us some money. I don't, you know, but there's always got to be that human touch. I think with hospitality in my mind, it's just the business we're in. So we'll see how that goes, but yeah, I think we'll save some money on labor.
[00:25:44] Susan Barry: What would you say to people who make the argument that all like automation or digital key or whatever the case may be, frees up employees to do what they do best, which is serving guests. Like not for nothing, but that sounds like utter nonsense to me. No owner is going to be like, Oh, we've got freed up eight hours, run around and talk to people. Like it's never going to happen that way. No?
[00:26:17] Tommy Beyer: I'd say in your luxury and ultra luxury space, sure. Maybe that's okay. But for everything else, no. Right? I mean, to your point, it frees them up to go on TikTok or whatever they're they're doing. But no, I agree with that. I think, and it also goes back to the old adage of the good general managers are sort of training their team to engage with the guests on a different level if they have more time or because they have more time. I don't know what percentage that is, but let's call it 10% of the industry or 5% of the industry, right? The rest of the hotels, it's just freeing them up to do whatever they'd like to do.
[00:27:03] Susan Barry: Okay. So if you could wave a magic wand and change one thing about the business model of hotels, what would it be?
[00:27:10] Tommy Beyer: I would have the brand stop adding brands, right? I mean, it's just, it's just enough.
[00:27:17] Susan Barry: I agree wholeheartedly. The only person that serves is the brand, right? Or the only entity it serves because consumers don't know or care. Nobody is benefiting. Like, what is the point?
[00:27:31] Tommy Beyer: I agree. I don't know how it ends. Well, I mean, there's just dilution, right? If you think about, I'm not going to name names, I don't want to get in trouble. But if you have brands that have a bunch of legacy hotels, let's say they have 500 hotels that really should be kicked out of the system, but then they create another brand for those hotels to convert to, like, what have you done? I don't know. I just don't know how that ends well for anybody. And like, where does it stop? Like, when do we create more and more? I don't really know. And to your point, if I'm a consumer, I couldn't tell you the difference between a Hilton Garden Inn and a Courtyard. And those are sort of a little more legacy brands, but I certainly couldn't tell you the difference between a tribute and a tapestry or even maybe some tapestries and curios or autographs and tributes or whatever.
[00:28:21] Susan Barry: No, not a chance. And what happens is those lower tier conversion brands still read to a consumer as an upper tier hotel. So their satisfaction is that much more decreased by the fact that they are still in the system.
[00:28:37] Tommy Beyer: Yeah. And now I think the economy is, certainly economy extended stay, is going to get really crowded and really confusing for the consumer here in the next two to three years.
[00:28:48] Susan Barry: I feel like extended stay may be a little oversubscribed at this juncture now.
[00:28:52] Tommy Beyer: Yeah, I don't disagree. So hopefully that magic wand works and people are hearing us, but we'll see.
[00:28:58] Susan Barry: Get out of here brands! Well, what is next for you? And what is next for B Hospitality Advisors?
[00:29:06] Tommy Beyer: Yeah. So I think the REIT side, we'd like to add, call it at least five more hotels this year. And on the consulting front, I'll work on growing that, but really just laser focused on driving value for my clients, whether it's a growing top line as Ralph questioned us earlier or saving money on expenses. So that's really where my focus is.
[00:29:31] Susan Barry: Okay, folks, before we tell Tommy goodbye, we are going to head down to the loading dock where all of the best stories get told.
Elevator voice announces, “Going down.”
[00:29:43] Susan Barry: Tommy, what is a story you would only tell on the loading doc?
[00:29:48] Tommy Beyer: There's a lot of those. I feel like most of them aren't appropriate. So let's filter through those and get to one that's a little bit more appropriate. So I'm going to take you back to ’08. I was a new GM. I was a first time general manager. I was 22 years old running a Hampton Inn outside of Savannah. And it's maybe nine o'clock at night and the phone rang. My phone rings. Okay. Tommy, you have to come to the hotel. There's a fire. So I haven't dealt with a fire in a hotel outside of like microwave popcorn that didn't go well. So I'm driving, I lived a couple miles from the hotel. I'm driving very quickly to get to the hotel. I get there and there are fire trucks and police cars and ambulance, everything. And I was like, and they're blocking everything, and I'm saying, Oh my gosh, this is a real problem. But I didn't see the fire. So I find the fire chief and I said, where's the fire?
And he's like, we see that you see that light pole right there in the parking lot. I said, yeah, he said, well, it was smoking. And I said, that's what all this is about. I said, get out of here. Take some of this away. I need to sell rooms tonight. Right? So he looked at me like I was a little crazy. So I walked into the front desk and there are people walking past firefighters. Checking into the hotel, walking into the hotel. These are not people, the reservations. And they, the odd thing was they didn't say anything about the fire trucks. Nothing. They were like, you guys have any rooms tonight? And it really, my mind was blown on so many levels. One, I was like, why is this small town reporting to this fire? That's not really a fire to who in the world checks into a hotel with all these things without asking the question?
[00:31:43] Susan Barry: That looks like it's on fire!
[00:31:44] Tommy Beyer: And there was there were people lined up, we sold out that night and it really, in my mind, was like it's like man. This brand is powerful, right? People love it. So, but it was just a story that kind of stuck with me. So again, I thought it was that was an interesting story. There's certainly a lot more, salacious stories that we can talk about over a drink sometime.
[00:32:09] Susan Barry: Well, I feel like you might want to keep in your back pocket calling the fire department for your hotels that are having a hard time with sellout efficiency.
[00:32:19] Tommy Beyer: Yeah. It's a good point.
[00:32:22] Susan Barry: They could bring in all the folks and then bring in the rooms. Tommy Beyer, thank you so much for being here. I know our listeners got some great ideas. for how to better manage their hotels and I truly appreciate you riding to the top floor with us.
[00:32:38] Tommy Beyer: Susan, it's been my pleasure. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.
[00:32:43] Susan Barry: Thank you for listening. You can find the show notes at topfloorpodcast.com/episode/181. Jonathan Albano is our editor, producer, and all around genius. He even wrote and performed our theme song with vocals by Cameron Albano. You can subscribe to Top Floor on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you like to listen. And your rating or review will go a long way in helping us give you more of what you like.
[00:33:18] Narrator: Thanks for listening to the Top Floor Podcast at www.topfloorpodcast.com. Have a hospitality marketing question? Reach us at 850-404-9630 to be featured in a future episode.