Transcript: Episode 186: Honest Sushi

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[00:00:00] Susan Barry: This is Top Floor episode 186. You can find the show notes at topfloorpodcast.com/episode/186. 

[00:00:14] Narrator: Welcome to Top Floor with Susan Barry. This weekly podcast ride up to the top floor features tangible tips and excellent stories from the experts and characters who elevate hospitality. And now your host and elevator operator, Susan Barry.

[00:00:32] Susan Barry: Welcome to the show. Mike Mumford's journey in hospitality started at a family owned amusement park in Utah. After earning an accounting degree, he left The Midway behind joining Cisco in San Diego and spending 17 years in finance technology and distribution center operations. Post Covid, Mike reevaluated his priorities and transitioned into luxury LGBTQ+ travel. Taking on the role of general manager at Brand G Vacations. At Brand G, Mike combines his love of travel with creating welcoming high-end experiences for LGBTQ+ travelers worldwide. Today we are going to talk about the evolution of luxury travel. The power of group experiences and how travel fosters deep connections. But before we jump in, we need to answer the call button.

Call button rings 

The emergency call button is our hotline for hospitality professionals who have burning questions. If you would like to submit a question, you can call me or text me at 850-404-9630. Today's question was submitted by Allison. Here is what Allison has to say. My partner loves DIY trips, doing lots of research, walking a million steps per day, et cetera. How can I convince her that plan tours aren't the stuffy and boring things that she thinks they are? Honestly, Mike, this is a question that I have too. I think some of our very talented travel planners, feel sometimes like they're going to be stifled if they go on a planned tour. I don't necessarily agree with that, but I want you to help me convince them. What do you think? 

[00:02:32] Mike Mumford: I think that's a great question. Our travelers have a very clear picture of the itinerary that they're buying into. And then during the tour we may have travelers who say, you know, I really don't wanna visit that temple, or I don't wanna go to that monument and we will work with them. We say it's your vacation, your way. So if you wanna opt out of that particular tour and maybe go luxury shopping or you just wanna explore independently, that is perfectly fine. So I think two things. Group tours or planned tours often have a very clear itinerary and so make sure you're buying a tour that has sites that you're interested in seeing. The benefit of it is you don't have to think about how you're going to get there. And oftentimes with a group, you'll get front of the line access or you'll get preferential access to the sites. And then if there's things you don't wanna do, don't be afraid to raise your hand and say, I wanna opt out of that. And with our group tours, there are always people who maybe wanna stay back and have a spa day, or like I said, go luxury shopping. 

[00:03:38] Susan Barry: I think one of the things people neglect to remember is that the logistics part of DIY is time consuming. And so all of the time you're spending, figuring out how to get from point A to point B, whether you're hoofing it thousands of steps a day or something else is time not spent doing the exciting attractions or whatever that you're in town for. 

[00:04:03] Mike Mumford: The one other thing I would add is, the part that I love about group travel is you get to experience a destination through multiple people's eyes. And so things that I don't see someone else sees and points out and I will think, well, I'm grateful that Lauren was here because she saw something that I didn't see, or I'm grateful that Bill pointed that out. So that's the other richness that comes with group travel. 

[00:04:29] Susan Barry: That's interesting. I wouldn't have thought of that. So you worked in an amusement park, which I think is fascinating. What were some of the jobs you had at the amusement park back in Utah?

[00:04:40] Mike Mumford: Well, I started as a 15-year-old and. As a 15-year-old, the only option that we had at the amusement park was either the games and merchandise area or the food service area. And I went into food service and ended up working at the amusement park for nine years in food service. So the first summer was spent making cotton candy. 

[00:05:01] Susan Barry: Nice. 

[00:05:01] Mike Mumford: Every day, all day. The best thing about making cotton candy is you smell good when you go home, although you blow your nose and it's pink or blue. 

[00:05:11] Susan Barry: Then do you like cotton candy now or do you hate it? 

[00:05:14] Mike Mumford: You know, it really spoils you. If you can eat cotton candy fresh out of the machine while it's hot. I love it. I don't like cotton candy once it's cooled off. In fact, you grow to not like it unless you can have it fresh out of the machine. 

[00:05:27] Susan Barry: Oh, that's so interesting. Sorry, I interrupted you. Carry on. 

[00:05:31] Mike Mumford: No, so after a year of cotton candy making, I was able to move into roasted corn on the cob and spend a summer roasting corn on the cob on some grills and it was absolutely fun. I worked with amazing people and the corn on the cob roasting station was outdoors under a covered area, and I loved being outside, and so that was a fun year, and then progressed to funnel cake making for a season. I don't like funnel cakes. Didn't like the men, don't like them now. 

[00:05:59] Susan Barry: Same. 

[00:06:00] Mike Mumford: But I can make them very beautiful. And then I moved into supervisory roles and continued to work there for another six years. One of the unique things about working at the amusement park is I had a boss and mentor who introduced me to World Travel, and it was with him and a couple of other people from the amusement park that I went on my first international trip to London and Paris, and it really opened up a love of international travel. So I think the amusement park, both for the opportunities that I had as well as for the love of international travel that developed.

[00:06:39] Susan Barry: Very nice. My first job, or one of my first jobs was working in a movie theater and I had to make popcorn. Of course, I worked in a concession stand. I love popcorn to this day, and unlike you, I have no like standards. It can be cold and gross, it can be fresh and hot, whatever the case is. I just love to eat popcorn. So some of those things you never get tired of will you be? 

[00:07:05] Mike Mumford: Movie style popcorn is something I will never turn down.

[00:07:09] Susan Barry: Yeah. 

[00:07:10] Mike Mumford: I cannot resist it. 

[00:07:11] Susan Barry: It's so good. You became an accountant after college, but that only lasted for a couple of years. What made you realize that it wasn't for you? And I'm curious if there were signs when you were in school that maybe you ignored, like you had this nagging feeling that this wasn't gonna be for you, but you're like, I'm gonna be an accountant anyway. You know what I mean? 

[00:07:32] Mike Mumford: Really interesting question. It was a high school accounting teacher that made me interested in accounting and I've always had a love of just business and how business works. And so understanding accounting, language, understanding a profit loss statement or balance sheet statement, I think is really important. And so I went to college. And I'll admit, it was toward my senior year that I looked around and thought, do I wanna spend the rest of my life with, with the people that are in my classroom? They're not the most exciting people in the world, although there are fun accountants. The majority are pretty serious and focused. And I plowed ahead, finished my degree and did go to work as an accountant. And very quickly felt chained to a desk. I also felt like I couldn't make the impact on business the same way you can in more operational roles.

[00:08:32] Susan Barry: Mm. 

[00:08:32] Mike Mumford: And so it was very, I felt like my hands were tied behind my back. So there were signs before I finished college, but I forged ahead. One of the things I kept in mind is that in college they told us a lot of accountants can go different ways career wise and just a simple example, they said the FBI hires a lot of accountants and while I didn't wanna work for the FBI, they use accountants to research crimes because crimes typically have a money trail.

[00:09:04] Susan Barry: Okay. 

[00:09:04] Mike Mumford: And so that gave me the foresight that I might get an accounting degree and not wanna work as an accountant, but I'll have unlimited opportunities. And so it wasn't that uncomfortable to forge ahead. 

[00:09:15] Susan Barry: That makes a lot of sense. We talk a lot on this show about the idea that higher education doesn't necessarily need to be job training. That it, because most people end up in careers that they don't even know exist. Or maybe jobs that don't yet exist when they're in college. Right? Like I was an English major because I didn't know what else to do. Podcasting didn't exist when I was in college, so how could I have ever had job training for it except for running my mouth, you know?

[00:09:44] Mike Mumford: I had an interesting presentation while I was in college. A speaker came to our business school and he said, one of the best ways to kind of shape your career path, and this will date me, but he said, go to a bookstore and go to the magazine section and look around and see what magazines you're drawn to and based on what you're drawn to, whether it's sports, whether it's cars, whether it's travel, whether it's housing. You probably ought to think about careers that will help you live and breathe that world. And that always stuck with me. And it's funny, because I was always kind of on the sidelines for the things that I was passionate about, but not necessarily in the heart of 'em. 

[00:10:29] Susan Barry: Hmm. Well, the pandemic led you to reassess your career and do some extensive travel. What were some of your lessons or takeaways from that period of time? 

[00:10:42] Mike Mumford: Like everyone in the hospitality industry, my corporate job was with Cisco, the food distributor, and they sold food to people who eat away from home. Well, in the pandemic, no one was eating away from home because cruise ships stopped. Hotels were really down in capacity. Universities were closed. Restaurants were trying to reshape for takeout. So it was a very, very hard period of time for everyone in the hospitality industry. And I would include Cisco as a distributor of food away from home as part of that. And we were focused on how do we control costs? What do we do with the food that we have that we can't sell? And it was a very, very stressful period. And you also saw the impact firsthand on colleagues and friends. And I was concerned that if I didn't do some of the travel that I wanted to do, I could miss out. There were people in Covid who didn't get to do the things that they wanted to do in life, and so I made the tough decision to leave the corporate world and explore. I spent a couple of months in Europe and a good part of that time was in Eastern Europe, the former Yugoslavia countries. And I also spent some time in Mexico. My goal was to learn Spanish. I have a long way to go to be super proficient, but I've made good progress and it's really interesting. Those type of experiences reshape you in such a way that you really can't see yourself going back into your old life. You're just a new person. You're reshaped and I think that's what I took away from that time. There's just so much to experience and do in the world. I wanted to find a way to ensure that I could do that. 

[00:12:33] Susan Barry: And you did, you are the general manager of Brand G Vacations. Talk about Brand G, what it is and how it's different from other luxury travel companies.

[00:12:46] Mike Mumford: Well, Brand G Vacations is the number one operator of luxury, all LGBTQ+ vacations. And what really sets us apart from others is our guests. Brand G brings a diverse group of friendly LGBTQ plus travelers together consistently. And one of the things that makes me most proud is quite often when we're on tour, we'll be asked by the local tour operators, how long has this group known each other? How long has this group traveled together? And it's fun to say, oh, we just met yesterday, or we just met two days ago. Our travelers are friendly, they're cohesive. They come from all different backgrounds, but they have the commonality of being LGBTQ+ or allies, and it just makes traveling with us extra special.

[00:13:33] Susan Barry: Well, that's a significant shift from corporate finance and tech. How did you make that leap? Like did you come back from your tour of the world thinking, well, I gotta go to a travel company, or you know, did the stars align to make that happen? 

[00:13:52] Mike Mumford: My husband and I had actually traveled with Brand G Vacations three times, so I was very familiar with Brand G Vacations. I initially met them in 2016. Brand G Vacations does different events around the country, and I'd gone to an event in my home city and met what we call alumni travelers as well as prospective travelers. And met Jeff, one of the co-owners of Brand G Vacations and his husband. And the takeaway was I would really like to travel with these type of people. And some of the destinations that they go to are really best seen by a river cruise, such as the Danube River. And so I had traveled with Brand G three different times over the years. And when I came back from that. I'll call it corporate sabbatical. It just stuck in my head if I could ever make that what I do all the time. That's really what I would like to do, and the opportunity did present itself. About a year and a half later and I jumped at it. 

[00:14:58] Susan Barry: You manifested your job. So I think people listening know what a general manager of a hotel is or what a general manager of a restaurant is, but probably not a general manager of a travel company. Can you talk a little bit about what that job is like? Sort of what are the day-to-day responsibilities so that you know, those of us who wanna be you when we grow up will know what skills we need to develop? 

[00:15:22] Mike Mumford: What's interesting about this role is so much of our work is very, very future focused. So right now we have our 2026 trips on sale. We released them last December and we are working on 2027 trips. So if you talk to me about what year we're in, oftentimes I will get it wrong because my brain is in 27 or 26 or the present. So one thing that we're focused on is creating and offering new tours in future years, but we're also focused on the day-to-day tours that we're delivering this year. And we've got 25 trips this year that we're delivering. And so focused on the guest experience, and that really starts with the pre-booking process, to the booking, to the actual trip delivery, and then the follow up. And each one of those trips has operations and logistics details that we go into minutia on to make sure we understand how each step of the trip will deliver and where we need to modify things because of our guest, our group size or other factors. We're also focused on sales and marketing. How do we market and sell some of our trips? There are unique destinations that sometimes you have to educate your travelers on. Why would someone go to the Skeleton Coast, for instance. 

[00:16:50] Susan Barry: Mm-hmm. 

[00:16:51] Mike Mumford: In Africa. And then I've gotta focus on the team itself and the culture day to day. Ultimately, every one of us at Brand G Vacations is extremely passionate about travel and there are some parts of travel and group travel that are harder, and so supporting each other and making sure every trip that we do creates memorable moments for our guests. Those are some of the things that I'm focused on on a daily basis.

[00:17:21] Susan Barry: We like to make sure that our listeners come away from each episode of Top Floor with a couple of very practical, tangible tips to try either in their businesses or in their personal lives. So I know you have traveled extensively, both with and without Brand G. What are some of the most underrated destinations that you visited? Is it the Skeleton coast or something else? 

[00:17:45] Mike Mumford: I would have to put the Balkan region as number one, whether it's Montenegro and Colter Bay, Croatia, and the Plitvice Lakes National Park, Slovenia, and the Lake Bled region. That whole region is just geographically stunning. You can get some amazing food there and some of those areas that I named are less traveled, while some of within Croatia there are cities that are more traveled, but Plitvice Lakes National Park, just stunning. So that is one of my very favorite experiences. 

[00:18:21] Susan Barry: Are you more drawn to sort of the nature part of a trip or the urban city dining dancing type part of a trip?

[00:18:31] Mike Mumford: I personally am drawn to the natural beauty landscapes. Sunsets are my thing. 

[00:18:39] Susan Barry: Mm-hmm. 

[00:18:39] Mike Mumford: And you can get that in big cities. You can also get that in more rural places. So wherever I am in the world, if I can capture an amazing sunset, that is something I love to do. And that may include a hike to get to the right viewing place. It may require going to a rooftop bar to get the right view. But capturing a sunset and the scenery, and then also immersing yourself in the local culture. And that could be dining at a restaurant that is only filled with locals, and maybe you don't know what you're ordering, maybe you don't know how you're supposed to eat, but that's all part of the experience.

[00:19:15] Susan Barry: What about travel tips? I'm sure people ask you this all the time, but what is a travel tip that you swear by either something you do always before or during a trip? 

[00:19:26] Mike Mumford: The number one trip that I would share is travel light. So pack as light as possible, and you would probably be shocked about my fastidious nature about what I'm packing. I will put things on a scale and choose these pants over those pants because they weigh less. I always try to pick light, light clothing. With the electronics that I travel with, I try to minimize how many electronics I travel with, but then I look at the adapter to the computer. If I'm traveling with the computer, how do I get the lightest weight adapter? How do I get the lightest weight computer? A person who travels light can be a whole lot more nimble when there are flight challenges or trains or buses or subways. And I wouldn't underestimate the value of identifying lightweight clothing, lightweight toiletries, lightweight electronics. It will make your your enjoyment of travel is so much better. 

[00:20:27] Susan Barry: That's so interesting. I interviewed Kevin Fedarko, who writes about the Grand Canyon quite often, and he wrote a book about traveling, traversing the entirety of the Grand Canyon, and that was his tip. And he talked about taking everything that they had and like down to, I'm trying to think of an example, like maybe the little whatever they're called on the end of a shoelace. Removing that to take some weight off. Like, you know, that's probably not the right example, but stuff that you would think like, really, dude, that really doesn't make a difference. But he said it made a huge difference. Do you travel with a backpack or a suitcase? 

[00:21:04] Mike Mumford: Great question. I have tried both. I ultimately prefer to travel with a suitcase just because no matter how light you pack. At the end of the day, lugging a backpack around on your back, leaves you more strained. And a good suitcase with good rollers, will keep you fresher. Now there are some places with cobblestone and more difficult to roll places, and so you do kind of have to consider am I going to a place where I can roll a suitcase or not? 

[00:21:33] Susan Barry: Mm-hmm. 

[00:21:33] Mike Mumford: If you can't roll it, you might as well go the backpack route, and if you are going with a suitcase, I always prioritize what suitcase weighs the least, because there's nothing worse than unpacking light and picking a heavy suitcase.

[00:21:46] Susan Barry: Yes. So I'm guessing that you don't have a hard sided suitcase, or do you ?

[00:21:51] Mike Mumford: I don't travel with a hard sided suitcase unless I'm hauling. One of the challenges with hosting Brand G trips is oftentimes I'm traveling with amenities for the trip or other things for the guests. 

[00:22:03] Susan Barry: Oh, yeah. 

[00:22:04] Mike Mumford: So it's so nice to hand those items out because suddenly I've just lost 70 pounds of things. 

[00:22:10] Susan Barry: That makes sense.

[00:22:11] Mike Mumford: I had haul over there. 

[00:22:12] Susan Barry: Well, we have reached the fortune telling portion of our show, so now you have to predict the future and then we'll see if you got it right. What is a prediction that you have about the future of luxury LGBTQ+ travel? 

[00:22:26] Mike Mumford: The biggest prediction is that in the coming years and or decades, more and more locations will be open and safe for LGBTQ+ travel, and we always pick destinations that, that we know our guests will be safe in. Some of them are countries where as a local you wouldn't want to live as an out LGBTQ+ person. But then there's destinations today that we can't go there. So my prediction is more and more locations will open up. I don't know how long it will take but more places will be safe for LGBTQ+ travelers. And then I also think more allies will choose to travel with LGBTQ+ groups because of the camaraderie and the experience. 

[00:23:16] Susan Barry: It sounds like, and I wanna go to on all of your trips, so listen, let me know if I'm invited. If you could wave. 

[00:23:23] Mike Mumford: Always.

[00:23:23] Susan Barry: If you could wave a magic wand and change one thing about the travel industry, what would it be?

[00:23:28] Mike Mumford: Well, if it was a really good magic wand, I would wave it in such a way that all flight delays and disruptions would cease to exist. Wouldn't that make the world a better place? 

[00:23:37] Susan Barry: Yes, for sure. What legacy do you wanna leave? 

[00:23:43] Mike Mumford: The legacy that I hope to leave behind is one that helped make the world more accessible, especially for LGBTQ+ travelers. Each one of our trips creates an opportunity for our guests to interact with people who live and work in the destinations we're visiting. And these interactions help shape the local people's perceptions of the LGBTQ+ community and shape our perceptions of those local cultures and people. And so if we could make the world more accessible, both directions, both for us to go visit them and for them to come visit us, I think that would be the best legacy.

[00:24:20] Susan Barry: I couldn't agree more. Okay, folks, before we tell Mike goodbye, we are going to head down to the loading dock where all of the best stories get told.

Elevator voice announces, “Going down.”

[00:24:35] Susan Barry: Mike, what is a story you would only tell on the loading dock? 

[00:24:39] Mike Mumford: Well, I had to think hard about that because I, many of our guests will be listening to this. 

[00:24:44] Susan Barry: You can't reveal everything. 

[00:24:47] Mike Mumford: One of the things I would say in hospitality is as a host or as a hospitality provider, we always do our best to make sure the guests have a seamless experience. And things go wrong, but you don't want guests to know that they went wrong. Last year I was leading a tour in Japan, and part of that tour included a sushi making experience and lunch. And we had to change venues because the venue we had used previously couldn't accommodate our group size that particular year. So neither I or the local guide knew exactly where the venue was, but we had the address and so the bus took us and we get everyone off the bus and go into the building. And it's an office building with names of like, insurance firms. 

[00:25:33] Susan Barry: Are you serious? 

[00:25:34] Mike Mumford: The guests are asking me, is this where we're making sushi? I'm like, I'm not sure. So I'm trying to entertain the guests with witty banter. 

[00:25:42] Susan Barry: Mm-hmm. 

[00:25:43] Mike Mumford: While our local guide is trying to track down the address. And one thing that I will tell you about the Japanese culture is they're brutally honest. And we did learn that the venue was about four blocks down. So after 20 minutes or so of entertaining guests in an insurance building, we go down the street to the venue that had the sushi making kitchen. And we get into the kitchen and the gentleman who was doing the demonstration started off by saying, it's unfortunate that you're all 30 minutes late, but we will still have a good experience. But it is disappointing. You're 30 minutes late. 

[00:26:21] Susan Barry: Oh my God! 

[00:26:21] Mike Mumford: And went on and on, just like, okay, let's go. Nobody missed out on anything. The 30 minutes did not hurt our experience, but you would've thought it hurt our experience because he was way too transparent. 

[00:26:33] Susan Barry: He wanted to make sure that you felt bad about it. I could tell. Mike Mumford, thank you so much for being here. I know that our listeners are Googling trips that they can take as we speak, and I really appreciate you writing with us to the top floor. 

[00:26:50] Mike Mumford: Well, thank you for having me. It's been a pleasure. 

[00:26:53] Susan Barry: Thank you for listening. You can find the show notes at topfloorpodcast.com/episode/186. Jonathan Albano is our editor, producer, and all around genius. He even wrote and performed our theme song with vocals by Cameron Albano. You can subscribe to Top Floor on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you like to listen. And your rating or review will go a long way in helping us give you more of what you like.

[00:27:29] Narrator: Thanks for listening to the Top Floor Podcast at www.topfloorpodcast.com. Have a hospitality marketing question? Reach us at 850-404-9630 to be featured in a future episode.