Transcript: Episode 188: Scared in the Dark

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[00:00:00] Susan Barry: This is Top Floor episode 188. You can find the show notes at topfloorpodcast.com/episode/188. 

[00:00:14] Narrator: Welcome to Top Floor with Susan Barry. This weekly podcast ride up to the top floor features tangible tips and excellent stories from the experts and characters who elevate hospitality. And now your host and elevator operator, Susan Barry.

[00:00:32] Susan Barry: Welcome to the show. Renee Rubins spent over 25 years in media sales starting her career at NBA Entertainment before moving into business to business media in industries like finance, healthcare, and architecture. Along the way, she experienced a pivotal moment during a trip to San Francisco when she discovered high quality tea. This passion led Renee to travel globally learning about tea production firsthand, and eventually launching her own tea company Symphony of Leaves. While initially focused on direct to consumer sales, Renee leveraged her B2B expertise to switch over toward partnerships with hotels, spas, and other hospitality related brands. Her company prioritizes ethical sourcing, whole leaf teas, and bespoke blending. Today we are going to talk about the business of high-end tea and its role in hospitality. But before we jump in, we need to answer the call button. 

Call button rings 

The emergency call button is our hotline for hospitality professionals who have burning questions or maybe boiling questions in this case. If you would like to submit a question, you can call or text me at 850-404-9630. Today's question was submitted by Beatrice. Here is Beatrice's question, what is the difference between herbal tea and Tru Tea? I know you know the answer and I know you could probably spend a whole hour talking about this, but give us the high level difference.

[00:02:26] Renee Rubens: Sure, sure, sure. 

[00:02:27] Susan Barry: I never knew there was a difference until I met you. 

[00:02:30] Renee Rubens: Well, first thank you Susan, for having me. I really appreciate the opportunity to be here. And that's a question that's posed to me often. So tea has an actual designation, right? It comes from the Camilla Sinensis plant. So all tea, white, green, oolong, black, pu’er, are all from the Camilla Sinensis plant. We have kind of somehow migrated in, allowed every herb to be called tea when it's not really tea, but in the US there's no tea police, so it's fine. So when you talk about chamomile, chamomile is an herb. It's not a tea, it's just an herbal. Right. And so that's what we do at Symphony of Leaves Tea Company, though we really focus on tea from the Camilla plant. You need certain weather conditions for the Camilla plant to grow. And then, you know, when you get into India, this is a long story, but you use a lot of the Camilla Asavica plant. Right. Okay. But it still comes from initially, the Camilla Sinensis plant, which has origins in China. 

[00:03:36] Susan Barry: Very interesting. Well, you had a long career in media sales before you launched your tea business. What was the moment that you knew it was time to take the leap? Like was there one precipitating event or was it a long time coming? 

[00:03:54] Renee Rubens: I would say probably more of the latter. You know, I loved being in B2B media sales. It was an amazing career. I got the opportunity to do business around the world. I've worked with some really smart, sophisticated marketers. And I remember early on, years before I started the business, I was talking to a friend of mine and he's a Brit, and I said, you know, I think I'm gonna start a tea company. And he says. Because the world really needs another tea company, but he's British, right? So he was like, so I hear right? And so I kind of said, eh, maybe he's right. Maybe I just don't need to do it. I'll keep it as a passion. And I'll continue to do it as gift giving. And so that went on for years. But I still continued to take more classes and learn more about the business and, you know, develop more relationships with producers and growers. And then really, it's probably the beginning of Covid, right? There was just a lot of uncertainty. The media landscape had changed significantly in terms of the types of products that companies were purchasing to communicate their value propositions. And I said, you know what? I may as well, you know, there was no strategic plan here.

[00:05:09] Susan Barry: Mm-hmm. 

[00:05:10] Renee Rubens: Other than I had a name. I sat around and I figured out how to build a website. I have since moved on to somebody professionally and worked with one of my cousins to design a logo and that was that. And so I had all of the tools to launch the business and I think Covid was really kind of the onset for me to say, you know, there's a lot of uncertainty on the corporate side.

[00:05:37] Susan Barry: Got it. Can you tell us more, I know you started direct to consumer and then sort of switch to business to business. How did you make that decision, or what was driving that transition? 

[00:05:53] Renee Rubens: Well, a couple of things. One, you know, the idea of build it and they will come. Yeah, that didn’t really work. In my instance, 

[00:06:02] Susan Barry: It's hard, direct to consumer is very hard. You have to put a lot of gas underneath that. 

[00:06:07] Renee Rubens: You do, you do. And, and then after a while I kind of thought about, well, what do I know? What I spent 25 years doing B2B. That's where I know, that's how I know how to look for gaps in someone's business to help them with a solution. Right? And so then I pivoted when it hit me, I was talking to actually somebody who used to be a client who's now a good friend and buys for her company from me. We would have a conversation just a few months ago, and she's laughing at me, she says, so please tell me you didn't think that people were just gonna come ’cause you built a website. She's like I said, yeah, that was pretty dumb, huh? 

[00:06:48] Susan Barry: I mean, it's not dumb. That's how it worked at the beginning. It's just there's too many filters and distribution channels and social media and all those things that you have to climb through all jump through all these hoops.

[00:07:02] Renee Rubens: Right. 

[00:07:02] Susan Barry: Well, I think. It's clear that you love tea more than you love building a website. You've described it as similar to wine in terms of how you experience it as a taster, its complexity. Can you elaborate on that comparison? 

[00:07:24] Renee Rubens: There are wine sommeliers out there who are really masters at that and I am not a sommelier, but what I can say is when I think back to when I was first introduced to high quality teas. It was so eye-opening for me and to the point where I said to myself, why didn't I ever realize that there was something other than, and this is not against what goes on in supermarkets. Why didn't I ever realize that there was something more than a box of teas for whatever, $3.99 or $4.99 in the supermarket? Right? And once I was exposed and introduced to high teas and the differences in what makes a tea better? Right. It was just, it was so shocking to me that I just, again, like I said, I was shocked that I never thought about why. So when you start looking at if you ever just, this is the best way I think you can do it. If you open up a tea bag, right? So aside from the fact that there are microplastics in tea bags and then there's glue that keeps the ends together. What you get on the inside is usually what we call in the industry, dustings and fanning, right? So you get those dustings and fanning and they're not necessarily very flavorful and they don't really kind of deliver what you're expecting from a tea. Whereas when you're looking at loose leaf teas, you get to have an entirely different experience, right? You get to look at the leaf itself. You get to see how much more of voluminous a full leaf is in comparison to the dustings and the fanning. You get to smell it directly, right?

[00:09:05] Susan Barry: Mm-hmm.

[00:09:06] Renee Rubens: Because you're able to see it. And then when you are pouring that water on it, you get to see it unfurl. Right. And you get to see it through every new iteration, you know, every steeping you get to experience different flavorings. So like wine in the sense that you are, you know, we are really focused on growers who are very concerned about the quality of their teas, right? So you are getting to experience a high-end, repeatable experience, if you will, something that you wanna continue to have. 

[00:09:43] Susan Barry: Interesting. I swear I don't think I knew that there was anything different between a Lipton Tea bag and loose leaf tea that you can buy by the pound. I mean, I truly didn't. So this really is opening my eyes and my palette hopefully, so I can try some really fancy tea. What do you think is missing in the way that, food service approaches tea service like hotels and restaurants. Those that have tea service, what are they doing wrong? And is it that they don't have tea service? 

[00:10:20] Renee Rubens: Yeah. So some of them I don't think really have tea service. Right. But that's to the side. I also think that many of the servers are not being educated. On the source or the origin of those tees so that they can then share that experience with their guests. Right. So the presentation I have found sometimes to be, there's opportunity. 

[00:10:50] Susan Barry: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

[00:10:50] Renee Rubens: There's definitely opportunity for training and I think from one of the things, and I haven't done any research or there's no empirical data on this. Some of the servers or the management of, you know, when you're thinking about tea service, they haven't invested. They're not invested all the way through, right? They're kind of saying, okay, well we've got a tea service here, especially now, right? 'Cause tea is hot, right? 

[00:11:19] Susan Barry: Mm-hmm. 

[00:11:20] Renee Rubens: So we've got a tea service, but they're not really taking the time to kind of map out where those teas are from, and to tell those stories about what makes that particular tea an experience that should be on their menu, and that ultimately they should be presenting to their guests. So I think there's opportunity, tons of opportunity in the market. It's kind of, you are asking for like, some behavior modification, right? Because think about how we've consumed tea for so many years. 

[00:11:50] Susan Barry: Mm-hmm. 

[00:11:50] Renee Rubens: But there's some investments that you need to make in order to make that shift. And I'm starting to see some of it. But those investments definitely need to be made. 

[00:11:59] Susan Barry: Understood. You talked about the importance of whole leaf tea earlier. But I also know that ethical sourcing is important to you. What does that mean in the context of tea and how does it impact the final product?

[00:12:16] Renee Rubens: It definitely impacts the taste of your tea. Right? What we as a brand focus on are, I would say the three pillars. One is growers who are growing responsibly, who are harvesting ethically, and they are paying equitably throughout the entirety of this supply chain. Right? So those are are three things that we will not compromise the business on whatsoever. But how a grower. How a producer grows their tea, how they're thinking about regenerative farming, right? Are they using the land in a way that is very mindful of the entire, you know. Right? Are they using water spirit judiciously, right? Are they overusing water? Are they dealing with water shortages? And so how growers and how producers think about that and how they manage that is really important for us. Important not only because it impacts the quality of the tea, but it also impacts their relationship with the Earth. Right? And the same is true, like one of the things that you'll start to see a lot lately. So we do sell teas from Japan, right? And Japan is a small island. You know, there's not a lot of room there, but you starting to see a lot of those producers grow vertically. 

[00:13:39] Susan Barry: Interesting. 

[00:13:39] Renee Rubens: So the during stage as opposed to horizontal, because that horizontal obviously requires a lot more land. So then what does that do? What kind of impact will that have on one the environment? Two, the taste, the labor. So all those different types of things that you have to think about. And we get the opportunity to talk with producers about what they're doing to combat that. Not only now, but what does that look like over the next five to 10 to 15 years? As their businesses continue to evolve, as my business evolves, what does this long term partnership look? 

[00:14:12] Susan Barry: Very interesting. I know part of your business is designing or blending bespoke teas for different clients. What is that like? What is the process of that? 

[00:14:27] Renee Rubens: Think about one of the most popular tea that people ask for is Earl Gray, right. And Earl Gray, one of the things that people tend to like in that is that citrus flavors, which is. Okay, now, bergamot is really, it's limited in its production. It comes specifically from a region of Sicily. And it's really pricey. So one of the things that you start to look at is if somebody is telling you that they've got Earl Gray, is the sourcing for the bergamot also, not just the tea, but the bergamot itself, right? Because it's so pricey. Is it real bergamot? Is it synthetic for bergamot? Those are the types of things that you think about, right? And so when I'm thinking about creating a blend, I spend a lot of time with that particular base tea itself, and to see what flavors I feel like I am experiencing from that. And then I compliment something, right? It’s one of our most popular sellers for a white tea is one that we have that's called Simply Gorgeous. So it's white tea in of itself, tends to be very light. The white tea we use in this one is from a place in China called the Unan Province, which is actually typically known for their black teas, specifically their pu’ers. So it's pretty interesting to have some teeth, some white teeth from that space. But it's a very full-bodied white, and so it can withstand adding in the dehydrated roses and the dehydrated lavenders. But what we do as a rule is we try to make sure that it always remains the lead in all of our products. 

[00:16:09] Susan Barry: Right. I see. 

[00:16:09] Renee Rubens: So it's still going to be whatever formula we come up with. It's still gonna be at least 65% full leaf tea. And then we're gonna say, apply the same ethos to the botanicals that we blend in, or the fruits that we blend in to everything that we've done in terms of growers who are growing responsibly, harvesting ethically, and paying equitably.

[00:16:31] Susan Barry: When you are deciding about the flavors, maybe this is gonna ask you to give away your trade secret. So tell me, and we'll move on if that's the case. But are you trying to create contrast in the flavor or compliment? So in other words, like if you're tasting the base tea. 

[00:16:52] Renee Rubens: Mm-hmm. 

[00:16:52] Susan Barry: And it has a peppery flavor, would you then add pepper or would you add something to contrast with pepper? Does that question even make sense? 

[00:17:03] Renee Rubens: Yeah, it does. So, it really depends on the tea and if I'm designing it for something specific. Right. We've got a blend and it's called Sexy and Dapper. Right? And the reason it's called Sexy and Dapper is because, especially in the states. Tea is definitely perceived as something that women drink. And so we wanted to open the door for men. And so we use as the base, a Chinese black taste called Sang Ong. And what that is, is it's a black tea, but then it's smoked. Right? So it's a very smokey flavor. And so I, when we were, when we were making that blend, we thought about, you know, people who smoke cigars, right? Or men who are really good at being creative with their barbecue, right? 

[00:17:56] Susan Barry: Mm-hmm. 

[00:17:56] Renee Rubens: So. 

[00:17:56] Susan Barry: That's exactly about, I was thinking when you said that this sounds like something my husband would want. He loves to drink tea and he's a huge, like, barbecue grill guy.

[00:18:06] Renee Rubens: Right? So we were thinking about those things when we were putting the blend together. And so there's a lot of contrast in that. Whereas, like I said, with simply gorgeous. It's very delicate. It's very beautiful. So the lavender and the roses compliment one another. So it really kind of depends on the tea itself and what the goal of that particular, and technically it's called a sain. The goal of the sain that we're blending. 

[00:18:38] Susan Barry: We like to make sure that our listeners come away from each episode of Top Floor with a couple of very specific, realistic tips to try either in their businesses or in their day-to-day lives. If there's someone listening who wants to upgrade their tea experience at home, her name is Susan Berry, by the way. What are two or three things that they should do differently? 

[00:19:04] Renee Rubens: So one, like I said, definitely go with the whole leaf teas, the loose leaf teas 'cause you want to be able to see it. Two, and this is an important thing that I learned in this process. Make sure you've got clean, like really good water. And good water at the right temperature. When we were growing up, we were always putting our tea on a kettle, and it was, you know, once it was at a boil and then it was ready. 

[00:19:30] Susan Barry: Mm-hmm. 

[00:19:31] Renee Rubens: Well, that's not necessarily the case, right? White teas are very delicate, so you don't want that water to be nearly as hot as it is for a black tea, right? So you want your water at like 160, 70 degrees max. And so each one of those teas, white, green, oolong. Who are black, they have different temperatures to make that experience be what it is. What we also learn is now I'm a tea purist in that regard. I don't need a lot of sweeteners. I don't need any sweeteners or additives. What happens often is when people are taking their water to a boil, you're burning your leaf, so then it becomes bitter. Right? And so you're putting sugar in it to come to cover up the fact that it's blood bitter, whereas full leaf versus the cut tear curl that you get inside bags, you're getting the full flavor out of it. And so you're experiencing a lot of different things and you can taste some of its own natural sweetness if the water's at the right temperature. You haven't put a bunch of sweetener or milk and creamer and stuff in it like that. 

[00:20:38] Susan Barry: Basically stop doing everything I'm doing and start over from scratch, is what you're telling me, Renee. Start over from scratch. 

[00:20:44] Renee Rubens: Yes. 

[00:20:45] Susan Barry: Okay. Understood. I guess I will get rid of the sweetener. It's fine. What about when you're looking for high quality tea, my sense is that you're not looking in the aisles of the grocery store. So what are your suggestions for identifying high quality teas to try? 

[00:21:04] Renee Rubens: One, you can visit our website, which is symphonyofleavestea.com. But, you know, do a simple search, an online search, and you can just do searches for high quality whole leaf teas near me. Right? And again, there's this, of people who have an interest in tea. So you, they'll come up on your search when you see them start the basic tea itself versus starting with the blends. Most people will say just the opposite. And the reason I say it, start with just the basic tea. You know, if you say, I wanna try this, you know, Indian black tea, because then you're getting to experience the tea itself without any other things combined and just wanna see what you like it. When I do, for example, tea blending workshops, right? I always start with taste the tea. Taste the tea plain, write down what you think you're tasting right? Write down what you feel like you're experiencing, and then let's look at what other ingredients you think may either, again, to your initial, your earlier question, compliment that or contrast that pending what you wanna accomplish here.

[00:22:19] Susan Barry: Interesting. Okay. Have you ever had a tea that blew your mind or was like really rare? Anything unique or extravagant that you can tell me about? 

[00:22:32] Renee Rubens: So people always ask me if I have a favorite tea and I'm always like, you know, it's like I have three daughters. I love them equally, some days. And I think when I get the opportunity to have a really amazing Taiwanese oolong, right? That always, you know, I'm always gonna go down that path. Okay. And one of the things that you'll see with Taiwanese oolongs is a lot of them are once they're being processed on the final stages, they roll them into these really small balls, right? Really, really tiny balls. And then once you, you know, put that water onto it and that ball unfurls and then you go to the second and third iteration, you really get to see a lot of the complexities of that and taste so many different flavor profiles. There are times I remember, so again, some of these are really small farms that we source from, right? So there's limited, I remember one day saying, I kind of think I taste cucumber here, right? 

[00:23:36] Susan Barry: Mm-hmm. 

[00:23:37] Renee Rubens: And I was with a taster and he says, oh, you know, it's a family farm, right? So next door they may have had cucumbers, right? Oh, yeah. So it's growing. So each experience becomes a little different, right? That particular farm I remember was a really, really small farm. And then, you know, it rains, right? So the rains and then you get all of these minerals that are. 

[00:23:58] Susan Barry: Mm-hmm. 

[00:23:59] Renee Rubens: Are coming through. So you have a lot of different flavors that your experiences, which is why I suggest before you go to the blends, taste the base tea initially to see what you experience.

[00:24:11] Susan Barry: We have reached the fortune telling portion of our show, so you're gonna have to read the tea leaves and tell us what's coming out. What is a prediction that you have about the future of tea and hospitality? 

[00:24:25] Renee Rubens: We always have to think about a lot of different things. As you know, as a tea company, we've got, I think about the geopolitical nature of the tea company, right? What kind of impact will the tariffs have on my business, which will ultimately have the same kind of impact on hospitality at the same time, increasingly, consumers and guests want experiences. Right? So we've gotta find that happy ground between higher costs for teas and providing our guests with the experiences that they want to have, the authenticity of having, like I said, a really high end poor from the Unon province. How do we find that space? So we're always thinking about that. We're always very mindful of the environment. Right? And global warming, right? Or temperature or climate change. And so what is that going to do? Because some of these farms, some of these farmers are sixth, seventh, eighth generation tea growers, which is wonderful, right? They're masters in their crafts. We're very, very, very focused on the environment and what are we going to be able to do to help them sustain those businesses, you know? 

[00:25:41] Susan Barry: Mm-hmm. 

[00:25:41] Renee Rubens: When we know that there's these external factors like climate change, and so what does that do for the tea industry or what does that do for the hospitality industry? I think for the hospitality industry, they may have to accept that there're gonna be some higher costs. That's just kind of the nature of importing things that can't really be produced in the us. 

[00:26:03] Susan Barry: Mm-hmm. 

[00:26:03] Renee Rubens: Specifically. I think that there's gonna have to also be the investment in training. Training the staffs to educate them on what the value proposition of premium looseleaf tees are.

[00:26:19] Susan Barry: If you could wave a magic wand and change one thing about the way people experience tea, what would it be? 

[00:26:26] Renee Rubens: Get out of those bags. 

[00:26:29] Susan Barry: Even the fancy ones, like the triangle shapes and the fabric and all that stuff. Just no more. 

[00:26:37] Renee Rubens: Yeah, I would just, I would let those go. I would just let those go. And the good thing is we do have some options. One of the companies that I work with is a company called Gross. They're in Canada, so we've gotta deal with some different costs there. Right? But one of the things that I like about working with them is they've got a canister that we carry and that canister is you, you know. I wish I could describe it better, but you basically have a tea strainer inside the canister so that tea stays warm up to 12 hours a day. The beauty of that is that you are, you know, not using the paper or the materials from the, like I said, from from bags. 

[00:27:18] Susan Barry: Mm-hmm. 

[00:27:18] Renee Rubens: And then you're still getting your good quality teas there. And one of the things I really like working with G in particular is a percentage of those revenues goes to safe water projects, especially in some tea producing countries.

[00:27:31] Susan Barry: Oh, interesting. Okay. Folks, before we tell Renee goodbye, we are going to head down to the loading dock where all of the best stories get told.

Elevator voice announces, “Going down.”

[00:27:46] Susan Barry: Renee, what is a story you would only tell on the loading dock? 

[00:27:49] Renee Rubens: Oh my goodness. So years ago when I was selling media, at the time I was in Mumbai. And I had stayed at a really high end visit hotel and that was great. And I was selling media specifically in the financial services space. And so my clients were, you know, big global banks as you would expect, and they have offices around the world. So at the end of my stay, I decided I was going to, at the end of the business, I decided I was gonna stay in India for maybe four or five more days. 'Cause I, at the time, I hadn't been there before. So this is a story about risk or maybe not making smart decisions. Okay. So instead of my favorite, instead of going to the hotel and saying, Hey, you know, could you get me a driver? I decided to go out on the streets and find my own right. But I'm a New Yorker, right? So I'm like, okay, I can handle a lot of stuff.

[00:28:41] Susan Barry: Mm-hmm. 

[00:28:41] Renee Rubens: So I meet this driver and he drives me around for the four or five days, and he is completely lovely and says to me, eventually, you know what? You're here, we wanna take you to the zoo here in Mumbai. Would you be interested? And I'll bring my family, my mother, my wife and my children. And so I spent the day with them and they were completely lovely, lovely people. And I wanted to, before I left, have henna put on my hands, right? 

[00:29:08] Susan Barry: Mm-hmm. 

[00:29:08] Renee Rubens: And so we're going to all these different places and the wife is saying to me, mm-hmm, too much. Too much, just to charge too much. Now the equivalent was maybe $10, right? And I'm willing to spend $10, right? But you have to be mindful of your guests, right? Or who you're experiencing time with, because yeah, $10 for them was a lot of money. And they said, you know what? If you're okay with it, I'll take you back to my home and I'll do this. And she says to me, a home is really, you know, it's very modest, right? So I thought about, you know, we think about the rooms that we stay in our hotels, right? And this is a family of four that's living in the equivalent of maybe a 12 by 10 room. 

[00:29:47] Susan Barry: Wow. 

[00:29:47] Renee Rubens: Like that everything is there. So I'm shocked, right. And I'm sitting there thinking, wow, what, what privilege I have to travel around the world and stay in really high-end places. And these people are so kind to me. And they've invited me into their home and so, they bring in a couple of neighbors and they do the henna and it's really beautiful and I'm having a great time. But what I didn't realize, we're in, you know, sometimes some of these images that we get on television about what would be like living in India and some of these buildings look pretty run down. This one didn't look as bad on the outside when I came in, but when I got in the inside, I didn't realize when we went in, it was daytime. By the time we were leaving, it was dark. There's no shared electricity. 

[00:30:36] Susan Barry: Oh, no. 

[00:30:37] Renee Rubens: Right. No. So by the time I'm leaving, I'm looking around and out outside of their little room and it's pitch black, and I'm like, oh boy. So I'm starting to get a little scared. Right? Because. 

[00:30:49] Susan Barry: Yeah. 

[00:30:50] Renee Rubens: I, nobody. I'm in India. I look at my phone is 1% on the bar. Nobody knows where you are, nobody knows where I am, no one knows where I am. And I'm like, this is probably not one of my best decisions. Right? 

[00:31:03] Susan Barry: Oh my gosh. 

[00:31:05] Renee Rubens: So, so tears start welling up, right? Because I'm like, oh my God, what do I do? And like, do I call my parents? And they're, no, I don't want them to worry. Do I call my siblings? Well, I've got two, so I don't wanna choose because I only have 1%. Do I call my daughter? So I've got three. Do I wanna choose? Oh no. And do I call my best friend? I was like, she never answers her phone. She doesn't know. So I'm starting to feel panic, right? I look at the henna, the henna’s beautiful, the people are nice but I'm still scared right now. I'm, I'm scared. 

[00:31:38] Susan Barry: Mm-hmm. 

[00:31:38] Renee Rubens: And so one of them, I guess the driver's sister-in-law says, well, we'll take you out. You know, you don't have to go out there by yourself. She says, hold on, gimme a minute. And she goes back and she comes back and this is their very devout Muslim family. But she comes back and she has a full musha on at this point. 

[00:31:59] Susan Barry: Mm-hmm. 

[00:31:59] Renee Rubens: And I'm like, that doesn't really give more comfort. Right? So she looks at me and she says, you too. And I'm like, me too. Oh. So she covers me like this because we're leaving and she knows, she sees my fear. Right. And she knows that my presence won't be well received, you know, again, way, way in the back. So they cover me up and then they take me back out to the car and I was like, thank God. 

[00:32:25] Susan Barry: Oh my goodness. So you made it back to the hotel?

[00:32:30] Renee Rubens: I did. 

[00:32:30] Susan Barry: You charged your phone? And then did you call all those people and tell 'em what happened? Or did you let the relief wash over you? 

[00:32:40] Renee Rubens: So I waited. As a matter of fact, I never told my parents. So if my dad is listening to this now, he's probably going to say surprise. Thinking like, what was going on in your head that you thought that was a good idea?

[00:32:51] Susan Barry: Oh my gosh. 

[00:32:51] Renee Rubens: And I remember telling my best friend, she said, yeah, I probably wouldn't answer the phone.

[00:32:57] Susan Barry: Well let this be a lesson to people everywhere that if someone you know is calling, there is a good reason for that. Renee Rubins, thank you so much for being here. I know our listeners got some great tips and are eager like me to go buy some loose leaf tea, so I really appreciate you riding with us to the top floor.

[00:33:20] Renee Rubens: Thank you so much for having me. I really had a great time. 

[00:33:34] Susan Barry: Thank you for listening. You can find the show notes at topfloorpodcast.com/episode/188. Jonathan Albano is our editor, producer, and all around genius. He even wrote and performed our theme song with vocals by Cameron Albano. You can subscribe to Top Floor on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you like to listen. And your rating or review will go a long way in helping us give you more of what you like.

[00:33:59] Narrator: Thanks for listening to the Top Floor Podcast at www.topfloorpodcast.com. Have a hospitality marketing question? Reach us at 850-404-9630 to be featured in a future episode.